Narcissitic son-in-law and I had words and I have lost a lot from it

by Scarlett Jones
(USA)

My daughter in her twenties started work as a receptionist for this narcissistic man who was president of his company.

His present wife in her 40's was his business partner. This man started emailing my daughter privately in the office and slowly started complaining how horrible his wife is and how she does nothing but spend his money.

Long story short he replaced his wife/business partner with my daughter.

My daughter felt he was the perfect man and had a worship at his alter attitude. He is a millionaire.

She used to be very close to her family. We noticed if she came for a visit he would always call into the house and pull her away from us. This never stopped. Overtime he started eroding away our relationship with our daughter.

He started a series of put downs and demeaning and disrespectful behavior towards me and her dad.

She started changing and turned her head away toward the rude behavior directed towards her parents and sister.

Finally there was a confrontation with me and this narcissistic son-in-law about his rude behavior towards me. I told him off. What I thought was a private conversation was not. I played into his hands.

He called me from his cell phone and camped the call into the speakers of his car. My daughter heard the exchange.

She calls me and tells me he never has done anything to me and told me to stay away. I played right into his hands.

My husband tried to privately convince this man to call me to work the issue out and he said I don't feel compelled. He never called me.

Now we have no relationship with our daughter. He has forced her to choose. She is now pregnant and we won't have a relationship with her or the baby.

I am heart broken but still am glad I no longer have to deal with this evil man. He gives me the creeps.

It has no occurred to me that he cares nothing about what he is doing to our daughter. He lacks no empathy at all for anyone and I hate that this type of foul individual entered our life.

We expect one day he will have another affair and toss our daughter aside like she is nothing.

Comments for Narcissitic son-in-law and I had words and I have lost a lot from it

Average Rating starstarstarstarstar

Click here to add your own comments

Jul 28, 2014
V.funny!
by: YG

Very funny Scarlett , re reptile cousins
So we must all wait for your wedding stories then
Good-luck !
Saw a picture of my ex & my darling GC , upset me
as he doesn't care if he sees them or not
(he's visiting from Indonesia).
My little Laila looks Just like my D at that age & little Jack is looking like
his dad (nasty s.I.l)
Not good writing this on my little mobile , so I'll be back later. Tablet broken!

Jul 27, 2014
Wedding
by: Scarlet Jones

Thanks so much for asking about the wedding. The wedding is 8/16 and the estranged daughter and narc s.i.l will be there. I am having anxiety attacks about what possibly could be done to ruin the wedding for the bride or how further he can cause strife with my family members.

I will let everyone know what happened. I am of the mind to act as if they are a part of out of town guests that I don't know. We shall see. I am dreading what should be a wonderful happy occasion
for the bride.

I was amused that "the reptile s.i.l" opened a reptile shop. Of course he would feel at home with his cousins. LOL!!!!!

Jul 27, 2014
Scarlett, how did the wedding go?
by: YG

Scarlett, how did the wedding go?
I had a similar situation to you as sadly my prev. m.i.l died. I went to her funeral on Friday in London, all were there (not estranged D). I made up with everyone that my nasty s.i.l had turned against me, as of cause he has now turned on them as well! I even made peace with my ex! But he visited them yesterday, so not sure if the reconciliation stands, after the visit.
But found out some interesting news, they (D&s.i.l) have moved in with his M&D! I don't know when, but that can't be good for relations, they couldn't have paid their rent, yet he has just opened that reptile shop! So things, maybe Karma, are happening!!
What a terrible lie to say re; your D & new husband annon, but par for the course, as we all now. I did read all the post on here the other day, but didn't have the time to reply, so I'll need to re-read!...

Jul 22, 2014
Living bereavement
by: Nosmiles

You're right Scarlett, the pain does become more bearable with time and it is like your child has died. For any one in this nightmare it's a living bereavement as it's virtually impossible to lay it to rest as where there's life there's always hope, and it's the hope that will not die that's the hardest thing to live with.

You must have so many mixed emotions as the wedding approaches; dying to see your estranged daughter and dreading the possibility of an altercation in equal measure. I hope and pray that all goes well and you are able to enjoy what should be a wonderful and joyful occasion.

I'm sure you're right Freedoves that even though our son is sending the emails and notes she's had plenty of input. I've told myself that so many times and in my lower moments wonder if I'm just fooling myself, but I'm sure what you say is true.

Thank goodness you have your wonderful husband to support you Anonymous. Every one who's posted here can fully understand what you've been going through and only those who have experienced it can truly understand. For your s.i.l. to give the reason he did for saying he was divorcing your daughter is monstrous and unless you've been on the receiving end of a narcs spite and venom it's virtually impossible to believe that people can say such terrible things. That's what makes a site like this so important.

Thank you Scarlett for your original post and willingness to open up your heart because by so doing, you have enabled others to open theirs.




Jul 21, 2014
Recurring Nightmare!
by: Freedoves

A briefer note to thank you Nosmiles and Scarlet Jones for your comments, and apologies for not being able to keep up with replies, but please know that our thoughts are there with our appreciations...

We are glad Nosmiles that you still have hope - the cracks in your son & DiL's marriage are proving these possibilities, meanwhile hang on in there - we have heard that it can take up to eight attempts to actually leave a Narc for good (don't know who is counting)! Your story does sound very similar to ours with the emails/texts etc. because even though they maybe 'sent' by your son, it does not mean that he actually pressed 'send'! We have visions of our DiL either writing directly using our son's log in, or her hovering with rage over him insisting he write certain words,enforcing him to agree just to attempt some peace, like a gun to the head scenario. We must say at present it has gone quiet on that front, but we know that is just the quiet before another storm! Who knows what is around the corner, but we can bet it is more of the same, but perhaps in a different guise. As we all know, Narcs don't sit around too long, before they find something else to kick off about!

Scarlet Jones - good luck with the wedding! Not long now, and it sounds positive that your daughter is wanting to speak with you. I keep reading advice to try to 'keep the channels of communication open' regarding trying to keep in contact with our children/grandchildren in these situations. The clue we believe is not to ask for too much in return, and not to raise your expectations too high - just work with small steps. Unfortunately it does leave you open to get sucked back into the Narc triangulation, but at least you are doing it with your eyes wide open!

All these alienated parents stories, along with the new Anonymous story are all very sad, and like a recurring nightmare - we sympathise with you all. One day we hope we shall all be out of the nightmare and living the dream again of a normal family life!

Freedoves

Jul 18, 2014
So sorry!
by: Scarlet Jones

Oh boy does your situation sound identical to mine.
I know it's a small consolation but I feel your pain and know exactly how you feel.

I too was amazed and heartbroken at the change in my daughter. Gone was the sweet girl I raised and in her place was a mean spirited girl that started acting out passive
aggressive behavior and literally called me liar when I came out and said the things he would do. You see at first it was done when my daughter was not around. Then he started acting out against me in front of her. That she approved hurt the most.

So we had to detach. That helps. Still there is not a day that goes by that I don't think of her.

We will be seeing them at the wedding. I doubt we will see them again after that.

I will say over time the pain gets better. Quite like the death of a child. Time heals all wounds eventually.

Jul 18, 2014
Narcissistic son-in-law tried to ruin my marriage and now has ostracized me from my daughter and grandchildren
by: Anonymous

I have known for years that my son-in-law had a big ego and a very high opinion of himself. He would often make comments that were mean-spirited but I always just laughed them off. He was also disrespectful in many occasions and my daughter always took his side when I would react saying that I took everything personal. I wasn't married at the time and had raised all the children on my own. A few years ago, I found a nice man whom I married. My s-i-l began berating my new husband finding fault in everything he did, how he played with the children, etc. saying that it was his culture and he wanted nothing to do with him but when we had family discussions and he couldn't win the battle he decided to go after me again, this time he called my home out of the blue to tell me he was divorcing my daughter because she (my D) and my husband were having sex (those were the exact words he used.) I know my daughter and besides my husband and I are always together and I know it was slander and told him so, his answer was 'beautiful' and hung up. A few minutes later my daughter called and apologized for him. I told her that that man was dangerous (he has been verbally abusive to her and my children in front of me and my husband) and I was behind her all the way. Needless to say, she never left him. She has told me she cannot make him apologize and that she is trying to work things out in her marriage. Of course he will not apologize because he finally got what he wanted, to get me out of their lives so he can control my daughter. This was a year ago, and he barred me and my husband from their home, so I only get to see the GC when my D comes by to visit. They have moved and I have never gone to their new house. I used to babysit and do things for them and I also used to go to my GC games, I have not for the past year and when I mentioned to my daughter she said no one had been stopping me from going to the games but she never gave us the schedule. Last year before the holidays, I emailed his siblings to let them know why I wasn't participating in any of their events as I was still being invited and I always attended in the past. I only got one response and the rest have been silent and everyone has gone back to their lives as if nothing had happened and he's had no consequences. I am so sad and hurt from my daughter's behavior that I probably sound like I am rambling here. Thank God I have my husband who has been a pillar for me because I have no one to talk about this. I did mention it to my therapist and she said that the s-i-l was a typical narcissist.

Jul 14, 2014
Dear Freedoves
by: Nosmiles

Dear Freedoves, it was good to read your latest post. Yes, we could talk for hours couldn't we; days, weeks or even months. There are so many living this awful nightmare. Until this happened to us, I had no idea that this kind of thing was happening and when I discovered that others were in exactly the same, or similar positions I was horrified at how many are suffering.

I'd always assumed that when grand parents were denied contact with their grand children, it was due to their child's acrimonious divorce. It had never occurred to me that it was all too often because a much loved child became involved with a Narc who systematically destroys that most precious relationship once shared with their parents. Perhaps that's one of the reasons these narcs are so successful, we simply don't see it coming. We were aware of minor 'issues' but never in our worst nightmares would we have imagined this.

To answer your question, the emails we've had from our son have been typed and forwarded by him but a lot of the content is most definitely from her.

Last Christmas Eve we left a small gift (a book) and a card for our grandson on the door step. Early that evening it was literally forced through our letter box with a hand written note from our son. He told us we were no longer a part of his or his son's life, that we were to leave his family alone and stay away and, that we were deliberately provoking a reaction from him; if we didn't desist we would get one. There was no doubting his hand writing but the format of the note especially the poor sentence structure made it clear to us that he wasn't him self. He is a very clever, well educated and meticulous young man.

We received an email in March which upset and worried us so much that we went to see him, they was separated at that point. It was strange seeing him and being in the same room. At one point he said it felt weird us being there. I asked him if it was good weird or bad weird; his face softened momentarily and he said it was a good weird. A few days later they were back together.

Several weeks ago he came to our home full of anger and bitterness as he told us his life was ruined and that we were to blame. He said once again that we were to leave him alone; this we'd been doing until his email in March. A couple of weeks later we were concerned and went down to the house, we thought he was on his own again but she was there. When I physically reached out to him, he stepped back from me saying 'we mustn't do this because it causes too much trouble'. The next day we got another nasty email, why? because we'd gone down to make sure he was OK.

Oh she's good but maybe not quite as good as she thought she was. There appear to be on going problems in the marriage; on the rare occasions friends and acquaintances see them together they comment on how miserable they look. I sensed his inner turmoil the last time I saw him. He didn't say he didn't want anything to do with us, doing so caused too much trouble; we could hear her slamming doors as he spoke.

We love him more than words can say, we'll always be here for him if ever he needs or wants us; that was the last email we sent him. We had a wonderful relationship for almost 27 years. I don't believe she can totally erase that, I can't believe it. We are his parents and she can't change that. While we live there is always a chance, no matter how small, that one day he'll come back to us. That is our dearest hope and maybe, just maybe that's her greatest fear.


Jul 14, 2014
Comforting words
by: Scarlet Jones

Freedoves your post was very comforting and feel free no matter how long it is your words have a lot of wisdom for us all.
Four weeks out from the wedding where I will be seeing the narcissistic SIL since two years ago.

I did hear from my daughter who is getting married that she feels my estranged daughter may want to talk.
It seems she may be realizing she may be seeing us for the last time and also wants to ask me questions that only her mom can answer.

I am not sure how a relationship with her could work with this situation but your post has helped.

Jul 14, 2014
Having Hope
by: Freedoves

Sorry, the last long thread entitled 'Having Hope' should have had our name 'Freedoves' not Anonymous (there are so many Anons on here, so don't want to confuse!)

Jul 14, 2014
Having Hope
by: Anonymous

Thank you Nosmiles - we have read this thread in more detail and your particular similar problems with your son & Narc DiL, and loss of contact with your grandchild, which we are very sorry to hear about too. We have been reading up this subject of Narcisstic Personality Disorder for a couple of years now, in fact we are becoming experts on the subject, with a library building up fast. It makes interesting reading, and proves beyond doubt that this is definitely what we are all suffering from having this impossible disorder brought into our family. However, how to deal with it is another matter, when it is not your choice to get out of the core relationship that is infiltrating your own lives and family bonds, and you can no longer speak to your child about your concerns.

Our Narc DiL managed to put a bomb amongst other members of our son's family too, and the ripple effect was a nightmare, but that's another story. It is what they do, destroy families, 'divide & conquer' is their motto. They take great pleasure from doing this and unfortunately Narc's do it amazingly well. We can only hope that each of our Narc's will trip up one day and meet more than their match!

Meanwhile, we are of course grateful for the small offerings of contact with our son and grandchild, but we have had to endure a lot of swallowing of pride and biting our tongues in order to get to this stage. We even had to succumb to blackmail - just to get some form of regular contact, although still highly controlled, and we doubt whatever we do by adhering to ridiculous 'rules' will ever change that. We have to be so careful of what is said and done when we do have contact, for fear that contact could be stopped at any time. However, we do try our best to enjoy the little time we have together with them, so that good memories can build, no matter what is being said and done. We particularly wanted our granddaughter to know that we still love her, even though we don't see her anywhere near as much as before the 'rift' was made, and thankfully that is something we seem to have achieved.

As we all know sometimes restricting contact can actually make the heart yearn for more, so this could actually be our Karma on our controlling DiL! The fear she has of us getting too close could still happen when our granddaughter is older. We can only hope! The trouble is the more our Granddaughter says she enjoys time with us, the more our DiL will divide us, so it is a tricky balance for us, and our poor son to manage. He doesn't talk about it, but we can tell he finds it hard - he has obviously been given his list of rules too for our visits, which he has to supervise! She is still so young though, so there is a lot of time, and ups & downs to get through before we can have peace of mind that she is going to be ok. Let alone peace and happiness to return for our son, and us all as a family.

As you say one question is, and has crossed our minds too, is it better for our children and grandchildren to know what they are missing, or to cut ties further and get on with our lives somehow, where none of us have to go through anymore added hurt and reminders of what our family life should have been. This is again an open ended question, and we suppose would depend on each circumstance.

In our circs, we are very determined to let our son know that we love him and that the door is always open, whatever has been said and done - we know that he has been trapped and can forgive him for his terrible quandry. However, in order to do that, we have to put up with a lot of continual grief to keep our foot in the door. It's either that, or silence, and we don't think we could handle that even more. The trouble with all of this is that we feel our life is on hold, and at a time of life when we should be enjoying it most - it really is so unfair.

I have a question for you in that does your son actually say directly to you that he doesn't want to see you etc? We too sometimes get nasty emails supposedly from him, and this has been since the fallout with Narc DiL who used to write them to us herself, with no qualms at all about the rude abrasive content! We know without doubt the more recent abusive emails are still from her, but through our son's email address. It is very clear who is 'talking' to us when we get emails, the tone and the way of writing is completely different, so she is fooling no-one, but the problem is that it still hurts even with this knowledge. We do our best not to respond, because we have learnt the hard way, that any form of reaction, good or bad, will get a worse response! There really is no winning... Whenever we get a chance to speak (rarely) to our son soon after another abusive email (although we do not talk specifically about the emails as we have been 'trained' not to bring up the subject) it is clear by his actions that he hadn't written any horrid words. You see although our DiL is conditioning him to be an extension of herself, she forgets that he had a very good upbringing (one that she denies) and those horrid words are not in his vocabulary - let alone his good spirit (which we know he still has deep down).

Lastly (as this is becoming another long thread - we could talk for hours!) We are very sorry to hear about the last horrid letter you received from your son, but with the knowledge we have, perhaps you could also read it with new eyes, knowing that this is not actually from your son but from your evil DiL. This could help you maybe to get a better perspective on things between you, and hopefully make you feel less helpless and have hope that things can improve again in time - because if we don't have hope we have nothing, and after all life is all about hope isn't it......

Freedoves


Jul 12, 2014
Freedoves
by: Nosmiles

I was so sorry to read your story; as they all seem to do, your terrible situation mirrors our own although you are fortunate to still be able to have some contact with your son and grand daughter.

The only contact we have with our son now is in the form of emails and his are usually cruel, abusive and full of complete lies or less than half truths.

Our grandson is now 2 and a half, and we haven't had any contact with him since he was 8 months old. We see him occasionally as they live literally a 2 minute walk down the road, but that's all.

We too have worried about our son's mental and emotional state but there is simply nothing we can do. He says repeatedly that he doesn't want any thing to do with us and that we are responsible for all that is wrong with his life.

We are doing all that we can to move forward and make the most of what we do have. Their house is on the market and we hope and pray that a buyer can be found and they move away. We have made the decision to let him go. We have not abandoned him as we've been accused of doing, simply doing our best to come to terms with the fact he has abandoned us.

I understand your dilemma. The only way out of this for you is to have no contact with your d.i.l. which of course will mean no contact with your son and grand daughter.

We never really had an opportunity to get to know our little grand son and I can now see that that has been a blessing as his loss would have been all the more painful if we'd ever been given the chance to be proper grand parents. We are relieved that we don't have to see our d.i.l., and as painful as it is, there is an element of relief that we have no contact with our son. There is after all, only so much hurt you can take.

Make the most of the contact you do have with your son. It may not seem much but at least you have some thing to work with. Sadly for us, the silence from our son is deafening but is still preferable to his lies and malicious accusations.






Jul 11, 2014
Narc DiL
by: Freedoves

We share your grief and sadness with other parents of Narc SiL and DiL. We (my partner & I) are new on here and glad to have finally found others in this same rocky boat after a year of searching. We usually only find people that are actually in Narc relationships, who have escaped (thankfully for them) but not forums of parents or secondary victims of Narcs by marriage through our children. So this is comforting to know there are other parents reaching out, although we are very sad for you all to know of your similar suffering.

So our question has been for some while now, who out there shares suffering of secondary Narc abuse from their DiL? We've huge ongoing concerns for our son who we used to be very close to, he's now isolated and trapped in a terrible marriage with a Narc wife since our granddaughter was born a few years ago. She gradually exposed her true side after the birth to the point that it became intolerable - her rudeness and demands are astounding.. She eventually found a way to get us out of the picture, because of our influences as parents and the fact that we clearly did not get on with her, however, this was after us both having done absolutely everything she demanded of us to help their family (NOT being 'interfering' or treating them as children as we were often accused)..

Over time it was clear she was using our son for her own gain, and us too, to do everything for her for an easy life, but nothing was enough to please her, and slowly our DiL cottoned on that we could see through her manipulations of us all.. We ended up having a massive argument, she projected all her wrongdoings onto us and there was nothing we could say or do because her mind was made up - we had to be out! The smear campaign followed!.. Fortunately, the majority know these accusations are unwarranted, but these people cannot understand why our son would allow such accusations. They cannot comprehend how in fear of losing his daughter he is. This is why relating our stories to people that have not experienced such pain by being a Narc victim just cannot understand why someone would put up with this abuse.

Our son is a bright intelligent chap, and if anyone told him several years ago this would be happening to him and his parents, he would find it all completely unacceptable and intolerable and would not have stood for it - but now he is broken down and seemingly a changed person in order to be obedient and do his duty to keep in with her, for the sake of his daughter.

So to complete the picture, two years down the line we have had no direct contact with our DiL, but she still communicates by proxy through our son (making out it is him when we clearly know it isn't) with a long list of unreasonable conditions put on us by her, on every tiny thread of a relationship that we're allowed left with our son and granddaughter. We want more than anything to cut ties with her completely on the NO CONTACT rule (the only way to deal with Narcs) but we cannot, as we have to go along with it, for fear that she will completely pull the plug and we will never see our son or granddaughter again.

We wake every day with fear in our hearts for our son and his sanity, but he is so caught up in his Narc's tangle of distortion that we cannot talk to him properly anymore - she has built a solid wall between us. Even when we do briefly see him, it is like she is sitting on his shoulder. No one it seems can talk to him amymore (friends or family) she has put the fear in us all. All our friends who know us and our son from pre-Narc days, cannot believe how bad this has got, how undeserved and unreasonable and crazy this all is, and how our DiL has so much control over us all by coming between us through fear......

The story is too long to relate in one, but we hope to share with other parents in fear of their children and grandchildren welfare and safety. We know our son will not leave his wife at this stage whilst his child is still young, he believes that he should stay for his daughter's sake, perhaps he fears for his daughter, but we know he fears not being able to see her.. his wife has been very cleverly brainwashed by clever bullying tactics, and insiduous 'conditioning' etc. (usual Narc traits. He is a good father, she knows she has him exactly where she wants him by using his obligations to stay close to his daughter against him.

So, if anyone else has suffered the same, it would be helpful to know how you coped with this on a long term basis. This could go on for years, and keeping our strength up and sanity ready for when the time comes to help him when needed is difficult to keep up, with so many twists and turns.....

Unlike some of you on here, we have been advised by counselling to attempt to stay in enough to at least have contact with our son and grandaughter whilst she is growing up, but it is hard when this means that we still have contact by proxy with our DiL. She uses this method to still get to us, and as previously said, we have to put up with all the ridiculous conditions and restrictions put upon us in order to do this, and even though we adhere to all conditions, things do not improve at all to anywhere near normal relations. Our contact is very limited and controlled and there is nothing we can do about it.

Our main fear is for our son and how he is coping with this continual abuse and not able to share this with anyone. Previous to his total 'conditioning' he was able to talk to us on occasions, he knew it was all wrong but felt he had to do everything demanded of his wife to keep in there with his daughter. He fears that his wife will turn on him, so he is stuck, because he doesn't want to be unable to see his child. We all know that his wife is a law unto herself and would make life impossible if he should leave. No court can control a Narc spouse. So we are all at a loss, and can only hope freedom and peace will come to all of us one day, and soon..

How do we all cope until that freedom comes is a never ending open question? Our hearts go out to all victims and parents of victims.

Thank you for listening - Freedoves

(We will copy this onto a a new thread too under 'Freeing our Doves')


Jun 27, 2014
Thats my s.i.l
by: YG

Thank you anon for your advise & sharing your story with us. You describe my s.i.l to a 'T'.
He brought my beautiful little granddaughter a snake for her Xmas present when she was just two & half years old! He told her that when the snake is big enough he will take her to the pet shop & get some new born baby rabbits to feed live to her pet snake!! This was said in front of my other daughter, and was just after I had been 'cut out of their lives' shortly after my daughter (her sister) was out too.

He was also proud to tell the tale of how his friend wanted rid of his pet rabbit so nasty s.i.l took his pet tarantula over & got it to bite the rabbit, then watched laughing as it died in agony!

I did go to court to try & get a visitation order to see my GC, but I was no match for nasty s.i.l & his mother who wrote their statements full of lies & deceit. I couldn't afford a lawyer & therefore lost.

Jun 24, 2014
Sometimes just to painful to read
by: Nosmiles

I haven't posted on here for a while but keep up to date with you all. I couldn't read the posts about the abusive step father in full as they were just too painful. My heart goes out to you and your husband and to you Forgotten Mum and Barbara.

Our son did reach out to us a couple of times in the last 3 months, but such is the hold our dil has over him, it has come to nothing. She has destroyed our relationship and I know I will never be able to look in to his once beautiful and loving eyes again, or be able to to hold him in my arms.

A few weeks ago when I tried to talk to him, she was in the house slamming doors, he told me 'we mustn't do this because it causes too much trouble. Then, we received a terrible email from him. I haven't read it but my husband told me it was the worse one yet and he mentions her by name 24 times!!!

My only hope now is that they sell their house and move away (they live a 2 minute walk down the road from us). To drive past him or see him in the distance, which I did today and he had our grand son with him, is just too much to deal with. It would be better for me not to see him at all.

I don't know what the future holds, I still can't believe this has happened, may be on day he will come to his senses and see her for what she really is. He's hurt us more than words could ever express and even if one day he's released from her clutches, I no longer believe we will ever be able to repair the damage that's been done.

I know she's narcissitic and I don't believe this would have happened if not for her but I'm not sure if I will ever be able to forgive him completely for the pain he's inflicted on us, the pain we must live with for the rest of our lives.

I hope the wedding goes well Scarlett, and that you'll be able to enjoy what should be a wonderful and memorable day.

Jun 23, 2014
Narcissistic Son-in-law
by: Forgotten Mom

Oh my I share my life with so many Left out Moms! I thought we were the only ones going thru this. The pain is terrible. The sil just brought our daughter and our gs down for a visit. That in itself is a miracle. Our GS is 15 months old. We last saw he when he was 2 months. I can't believe our loving daughter fell for this narcissistic man. And yes turned on us for him!!!
Every thing you read in the other blogs just hit repeat in ours.
Our lives have been almost completely destroyed by this jerk!
We will never really recover from what has happened I don't know anyone can. It changes you!
Barbara
The forgotten Mom!

Jun 23, 2014
Narcissistic son-in-law
by: Barbara

Oh my gosh , you are living my nightmare!!! I to feel like my loving daughter died!! Where is she what happen! He controls her every thought about us. This has been going on since 2005. Although we saw sign earlier. Once my husband and I mentioned it we became the enemy! Now she's married to him and they have a son. Our beautiful grandchild. When we get a rare chance to see them he is there. They never come alone. His family who by the way does nothing for them is his number 1 priority. I had a complete break down over this. They were aware but showed no concern. I was just called crazy!!! I feel your pain!!!!

Jun 15, 2014
Narcissistic abusive Stepfather
by: Anonymous

Dear YG- I wanted to write more on the subject, I forgot to tell you that these people are known to brainwash their children and even step kids, and spouses. You have to be educated about these people and don't let them run over you, cause they will if you let them, they are the aggravating '' know it all's '' you will ever want to meet, they won't listen to the truth from an honest person, they are known to be serious trouble makers and good at it. Our son n law went as far as threatening our grandson's real father, by saying'I'll beat him to death if he shows up, he won't let the real father even see the boys, by he lives in Florida, we live in Georgia, and this guy has now caused the worst, my husband now has a heart condition brought on by our son n law terrorizing and bullying him for 15 minutes and I had to call the ambulance 2 nights later cause his Bp was 217/116, enough to cause a stroke or heart attack. The paramedic wanted to have him arrested for terroristic threats and elder abuse of a disabled man over 65, my husband was 66,and a diabetic, so the hospital kept him all night to get his Bp down. I know one thing I feel real sorry for anybody that has had to deal with a person like this, they are bad on your nerves and your emotions, the boys need counseling because of the physical abuse and the mental abuse, he even tortured animals in front of them and killed 2 liters of kittens, chased them down and shot them all dead,and laughed while doing it, we think he has sociopathic brain disease too, we know he's psychotic, we've seen that plenty. You need to do what I did, document every word and statement, date the different things, have it notorized, which makes it legal and then take it to law enforcement, and a lawyer, anytime a child is exposed to someone like that it's child abuse. Thanks Anonymous,

Jun 15, 2014
I agree !
by: Scarlet Jones

I shared awhile back that I would be seeing the narc and my estranged daughter in August for my youngest daughters wedding. I feel guilty that I will be feeling relief once this wedding is over. I agree about the serious nature of these individuals. The change that has happened to my daughter living with this man is shocking. I truly feel that the daughter I raised died.
My youngest daughter explained that I was not missing anything and I was told the 2yr old is not social
and no one is allowed to hold her.
The narcs father and step mom approached my youngest daughter Easter for a get together and said, "Will you please tell your mother we miss her?" That meant so much.
Everything is weird in their life and I cannot imagine not being allowed to hold my GC.
Everything has worked out for the best.

Jun 13, 2014
Narcissistic abusive Stepfather
by: Anonymous

Dear,YG and anyone else that is dealing with a Narcissist, I have been studying these people for 4 years now and it is a severe form of mental illness, and these people are more dangerous than you think, not only do they wreck havoc in your life, but they can be very violent and if they have a combination of Narcissistic Personality and Antisocial Personality Disorder, that's Known as Malignant Narcissism and they are some of the most dangerous people that walk the street. They are capable of having zero empathy and are capable of being very conniving and vindictive, can twist your words and use them against you, don't ever under estimate the damage that these types of Yes very mentally ill people can do to you or especially a stepchild, and cruel to animals as well. What I'm trying to say is if you can record these people and let the law get involved, they are really truly dangerous to be around. Anonymous.

Jun 13, 2014
Thank you
by: YG

Thank you so much Scarlet for your kind words and as you, I have also lost my once beloved daughter to this horrid narcissist & his mother, who is equally as bad if not worse than her son, as I would have thought she would have had some empathy for me, her being a mother & grandmother too, but no!
I have given up now, but will still send cards at b/days & Xmas times, I do still hope.
My thoughts & best wishes are with you Scarlet & all on here in the same sad place xx

Jun 08, 2014
Thanks for the update!
by: Scarlet Jones

I am so relieved this man is suffering the consequences for his actions. Let us know how things turned out.

Jun 08, 2014
Thanks for the update!
by: Scarlet Jones

I am so relieved this man is suffering the consequences for his actions. Let us know how things turned out.

Jun 08, 2014
Thanks for the update!
by: Scarlet Jones

I am so relieved this man is suffering the consequences for his actions. Let us know how things turned out.

Jun 08, 2014
Narcissistic abusive Stepfather
by: Anonymous

You are right these people, especially a guy who is also doesn't have an education, and can't hold down jobs, that makes him more abusive to the boys, see our daughter has 3 boys, the youngest is his and he doesn't abuse him, only the 2 that are not his, but we have now the law on our side, he pitched a sick Psychotic fit early last month and the neighbors called the police, and he spent a few weeks in jail and now has to see a judge, and the police already have documentation of 12 years of abuse in their hands and I have called the DA, so hopefully this is our break, he will be ordered into mental help and meds. But he needs behavior modification and psychotherapy, because even his thinking is messed up bad. I will know more this week.

Jun 07, 2014
So sad!
by: Scarlet Jones

YG my heart goes out to you! I can almost see the look on your face as you saw the card and poem ripped to shred.
All I can say is this is a symptom of a very serious mental disorder that shows how dark this person is inside. You did nothing but reach out to try to heal the breach and got nothing but anger and hatred for your gesture. When I think about my loss it's as if the daughter I raised died and I went through a major crisis. I have come to realize that
God is protecting me from something much worse.
This is a reflection of them. I admire your courage in sending the card and poem. You are a very good person.

Jun 06, 2014
Protect the children
by: Scarlet Jones

I am so sorry you are dealing with this situation. Narcissistic individuals never apologize and never admit to doing anything wrong. If I were in your shoes I would call Family and Children services to get help before your grand kids are destroyed physically or most importantly emotionally destroyed. They need protection and are no match for a adult who is sadistic.

Jun 06, 2014
Narcissistic abusive Stepfather
by: Anonymous

Our daughter hooked up with this young childish guy in 2001, who is about as sick as sick can get. they didn't get married until 2004, and he began abusing our 2 precious grandsons who were at the time only 10 months and 23 months old. then in Febuary of 2002 to March of 2002 he began hitting them on a regular basis and actually beat the younger one when he was not yet 17 months old. By 2004 I knew he was really mean to them and I began watching his sick controlling behavior towards them, and it was starting to get worse, he was using Meth a lot and drinking heavily too. By 2007 I knew he was seriously abusing them, he wouldn't listen to me and he would constantly pick on the older one in mean and nasty ways. In fall of 2008 we moved into a house with them to help them out and the abuse was getting worse physically and then the mental abuse got severe, he would terrorize them in their face and that went one for over 3 years, then we moved back to the town we were in and they moved to a different town, but every time we would go see them our son n law would think of sick ways to abuse them in front of us, and do malicious things to them, he's very sick and gets his kicks off destroying their life, and ours, he's done horrible things to them and me and their grandfather, which he also terrorized him in 2011 at the age of 66, and disabled which he was rushed to hospital 2 days later with Bp 217/116. I have enough to put him away for all the abuse which includes animal cruelty also. His whole family is Narcissistic and a bunch of '' know it all's''. Please Help!

May 09, 2014
So much suffering
by: Nosmiles

Dear Shnthr, I was so sorry to read your post but glad that you felt you could share with us. I never knew that there was so much suffering until I came across sites such as this one. It really does help 'talking' to people who have found them selves in this terrible situation; the living bereavement of losing a much loved child to a narcissitic s.i.l. or d.i.l.

What a dreadful dilemma you are being forced to face and how well Grin&bearIt has expressed the fact, as hard as it is to come to terms with, that we must take care of our selves in order to be able to care for and support our estranged children should they ever decide to come back to us.

You and your husband would be wise, if you haven't done so already, to look into dissolving the business relationship you have with your daughter and s.i.l. This doesn't mean that this will be the course of action you will eventually take, but I do believe that doing so will go some way to reducing the helplessness you both must be feeling. It is that sense of helplessness that I, and I'm sure every one who is in this position, finds one of the most difficult emotions to deal with.

It is very interesting that both you and Scarlett have mentioned a deterioration in the physical appearance of your daughters. This is some thing we have noticed with our son. Once such a good looking young man but now, it's as if the misery he feels on the inside is being worn on the outside.

There's a section on this site entitled 'winning the game' and basically, the only way of winning is to stop playing and 'get out of the game'. As hard as it is for us to comprehend, this is a game to them and they don't care who gets hurt as long as they win in the end.

I realise that having a business connection complicates matters even further, but do investigate to see what your options are; you will have options I'm sure.

May 09, 2014
And yet another!
by: YG

Yes, yet another sad parent! So sorry to hear your sad tale Shnthr, we on here are all in the same boat, so all feel your pain. God Bless.

I sent my Easter Card to my GC with the beautiful poem in for my D. It was posted back through my door the next day, all ripped up along with the poem!

It was my beloved GD 4th B/day yesterday, it was a very hard & sad day to get through. I made sure I was extra busy till late. I was actually on the radio in the morning, talking briefly about this situation. I put happy birthday announcements in two papers & it went on-line with a lovely picture of them both, as my GS B/day is next week, so I put it in for them both. I also put a lovely bit on FB with four lovely pics of my GD, from me holding her when she was first born until when she was about 2yrs. I'll do the same for GS next week too.

I went to a clairvoyant a couple of weeks ago,she said that my D was not happy in the marriage, missed her mother's love & that I would be reunited in about 18mnths, but I don't think I will ever see them again.


May 09, 2014
Taking care of yourself first
by: Scarlet Jones

Shnthr, I could not survive if my husband and myself had to be in partnership with our sil. I can't imagine the stress this is putting you and your husband through. My heart goes out to you. No doubt the sil is trying to make you miserable enough to leave and doing it in the sadistic way a narcissist does to achieve what they want.

I was interested in your daughter and how you say she has gained weight and doesn't take care of herself. I have noticed that when seeing our daughter in the few incidences we had to attend family weddings, she has started wearing clothing a lot older than her age wears. We also have noticed her hair not being taken care of and especially no makeup at all ever. I suppose the sil has asked her to wear no makeup or she doesn't feel good about herself now which makes me sad. She hides it good and that is the only thing I have noticed since she married.

We will be seeing our estranged daughter again in August and have been busy planning our youngest daughter's wedding so our situation will be the only sad part of such a happy occasion for our daughter. I plan to do my best to hold my head up high and celebrate having a new sil that is a wonderful man and a happy addition into our family.

I am unsure if the narcissistic sil will attend the wedding. My youngest doesn't think he will.

So just a reminder to all that have posted that you are still the mother and grandmother and no one can take that away from you.

Happy Mother's Day!


May 09, 2014
How painful
by: grin&bearIt

Oh my, shnthr, this must be so painful for you. It is so difficult to lose such an important relationship at the hands of someone else. After 4 years of trying to understand (through reading & consultation) how a child once so close to us could change and then turn on us so quickly. It takes my breath away thinking that all the years we loved and nurtured them could be forgotten in a moment upon meeting their spouses. I wonder every day what is causing so many young people to behave in such a dysfunctional and unhealthy way. I hope that you and your husband can find a way to sever your business relationship with your daughter and sil, though I understand it won't be easy. When flying the attendants tell us that if oxygen is needed place the mask over yourself first, before your child. The instruction sounds antithetical to our instinct to protect our child first. The reason they tell us to do that, though, is that we can't protect our child if we lose consciousness from lack of oxygen. I think you must get out of your toxic business relationship and, if possible, open your own. This way you can heal and be in a better frame of mind to help your daughter (should she realize she needs your help) and, perhaps, have a business that she could one day join you in without her horrible husband. I wish you strength, perseverance and, eventually, peace.

May 09, 2014
nasty son in law
by: shnthr

Hi everyone
I hav been reading d posts which seems so related to my own life. Our sil has no respect for us. The worst is my husband n me are busibess partners too with our dauggter n sil. A relationship with my daughter so wonderful has totally vanished. Our daughter was an affectionate loving child n sister to her younger brother. Things have gone from bad to worse as d sil does not agree to any of our ideas. Although we have invested 50% we r just puppets in his hands. My husband is a soft peace loving nan. Never had an arguement with anyone in his life now seems to slowly becoming agressive trying to defend us from our sil.
The daughter seems to hav no say or backbone. She dotes on him n accepts everything he says. She still is affectionate to us but can remain aloof n withdrawn wen he is around. In business my husband or my ideasxr pushed aside. Sil is lazy n just lies on his bed watching TV d whole day. Occasionally coming to office , the work is done by us but we hav no rights at all to make changes or improvenents. I hav worked very hard to set this lucrative busibess up wut our daughter n feel bad quitting..which seems to b d only choice to get away from him.
We have put in all our money into this business n with Gods feace it is doing welk wit opportunities to improve it but sil iscd hurdke
I feel so guilty as I pray that someday our daughtercwill wake up n see him fir wat he is...a miser to d core. Will not give gee any pocket money for her persobal needs. She dies not groom herself or buy herself anything. She was an aerobics insrructor before getting married but has in d last 4 tears after marriage gained imnense weight n let herself go. She is a prifessionally qyalified kawter n has turned into a doir nat after marriage
I feel so sad wen I see her as she lioks three times her age. Im not ifshe is internally happy with this marriage but will not confide anything. I try helping her as we wer like friebds but now she shuts us out. Dont know wat to do. We just feel sad n caught in a maze

Apr 17, 2014
Response to Article
by: Scarlet Jones

Thank you Nosmiles and Grin&bearit for all the information. I went to the site and read the article. Wow is all I can say. It explained so much. I plan to print it off so DH can read it. I am the Empath and he is a Apath. This explains why the Narcissist Sil targeted me first. I know he realized I was on to him and what he looked like "under the mask" he wore. He could not get rid of me fast enough. This also explains why the other side of the family felt that I was the one who needed to "do whatever it took" to get my relationship back with my daughter.

I was particularly interested in the term "gas lighting" and the narcissist would accuse me of talking in circles and deny any wrongdoing and the last thing my daughter said to me was she seriously doubted my mental frame of mind.

Please don't get depressed which is only hurting you and your own anger turned inward. I too went through that phase and took medication and then put it aside as I realized it would only do so much and I needed to forgive them for me so I could move on with my life.

Everything I read is that it is a no-win situation and even sucking it up and apologizing would not do anything but entitle them to further abuse.

I pray for my daughter every day. I know she is brainwashed. It hurts to see both my daughter and the narcissist treat her younger sister the way she does. I want to protect my youngest but she needs to handle this herself. Not my battle to fight. It is starting to prove that what I went through was in fact the truth.

The goal of the narcissist is to drive my youngest daughter away through rude treatment. If she ignores the put downs (which she is at the moment) it will be at the expense of her self-esteem. If she stands up like I did then she loses her relationship with her sister. A no win situation anyway you look at it.

I also feel jealous that the narcissist is allowing his side of the family access to my daughter and grandchild but from what my daughter says is that no one really can get close to the child and she is so attached to the narcissist and my daughter (who acts like one now) that there is no connection at all and the child won't go to anyone. This can be due to the age but what I am seeing is that she has no connection to anyone but her parents.

This Saturday will be my GC's birthday party combined with Easter egg hunt and a big family bash with lots of presents. I get a little jealous but know that I would be even more miserable not being allowed to hold my GC. My youngest daughter and husband's side of the family is allowed to attend. I am interested to see how it goes for my daughter and family. I often wonder what the narcissists family think when I am never there to see my GC grow up.

Hugs to all of you and have a Happy Easter!

Apr 17, 2014
Thank you Nosmiles
by: grin&bearIt

Haha! I did the same thing, posted twice and for the same reason. I really appreciate your response. I have not communicated with my son's in-laws for over a year, but I do have all their contact information. I have always wondered why my dil's parents told us she was so controlling (and even gave us some examples!). I have been treated for depression and my doctor wondered if there was any history of mental illness or personality disorders in my dil's family, or with her as she was growing up. I am always weighing how helpful that information would be, compared to the potential for my son to become even more entrenched in his alienation of me. It sounds like your dil's parents are also being treated to her alienating behavior. My son and dil continue to have a good relationship with her parents and to share their lives with them. I do admit to feeling jealous, envious, and angry at times.

Apr 17, 2014
To answer your question
by: Nosmiles

Firstly, sorry my last post went on twice but it really isn't my fault as the first time I entered the word shown below I was informed that I'd done so incorrectly and had to do so again.

I forgot to answer your question Grin&bearIt. Not long after being warned about our daughter in law by her mother, she fell out with her parents and so we lost contact. She has fallen back in with them since falling out with us so I assume they know the situation we're in but no doubt due to the precariousness of their own relationship with her, would be reluctant to say anything on our behalf. Her parents' marriage broke down over 5 months ago which I'm sure will have complicated things even further.

Apr 17, 2014
To answer your question
by: Nosmiles

Firstly, sorry my last post went on twice but it really isn't my fault as the first time I entered the word shown below I was informed that I'd done so incorrectly and had to do so again.

I forgot to answer your question Grin&bearIt. Not long after being warned about our daughter in law by her mother, she fell out with her parents and so we lost contact. She has fallen back in with them since falling out with us so I assume they know the situation we're in but no doubt due to the precariousness of their own relationship with her, would be reluctant to say anything on our behalf. Her parents' marriage broke down over 5 months ago which I'm sure will have complicated things even further.

Apr 15, 2014
Thank you grin&bearIt
by: Nosmiles

Thank you for posting the reference to that article grin&bearIt. Not only has reading it given us a better understanding of the effect our daughter in law has had on our son, but also why our eldest son seems unable and/or unwilling to see the total fabrication of the accusations made against us.

The first time I came on to this site I posted saying that reading Scarlett's post was like being declared sane. You really do feel as if you must be losing your mind when all around are keeping theirs. Sites such as this one, and articles like the one you found are certainly a source of comfort.

I too would like to be able to have more private correspondence via email. There is a site on
www.gransnet.com the forum you'd need is 'am I being unreasonable' and that particular thread is 'cut out of their lives 3'. I and another poster on this site 'know' each other through gransnet. Our user names are slightly different but I'm sure you'd be able to identify us. If you use the name 'grin&bearIt' we would of course recognise you.

Gransnet allows private messaging, so it would be possible to pm email addresses if we wished too.

Apr 15, 2014
Thank you grin&bearIt
by: Nosmiles

Thank you for posting the reference to that article grin&bearIt. Not only has reading it given us a better understanding of the effect our daughter in law has had on our son, but also why our eldest son seems unable and/or unwilling to see the total fabrication of the accusations made against us.

The first time I came on to this site I posted saying that reading Scarlett's post was like being declared sane. You really do feel as if you must be losing your mind when all around are keeping theirs. Sites such as this one, and articles like the one you found are certainly a source of comfort.

I too would like to be able to have more private correspondence via email. There is a site on
www.gransnet.com the forum you'd need is 'am I being unreasonable' and that particular thread is 'cut out of their lives 3'. I and another poster on this site 'know' each other through gransnet. Our user names are slightly different but I'm sure you'd be able to identify us. If you use the name 'grin&bearIt' we would of course recognise you.

Gransnet allows private messaging, so it would be possible to pm email addresses if we wished too.

Apr 15, 2014
No Smiles
by: grin&bearIt (aka anon)

Thank you for sharing your story with me no smiles. I do have support from people outside of my family, but when the people who are closest to us (and are supposed to love us the most), don't even think we are being mistreated, much less abused, it can cause us much pain and confusion. I wanted to ask you this; since your dil's mother/parents once told you she was controlling have you ever talked to them about the havoc their daughter's controlling behavior has wreaked upon your life? Also, is there a way to contact anyone on this website through personal email? I would love to talk to many of the posters in a more personal setting. I am happy to provide my email address to you, but do not want to publicly post.

Apr 15, 2014
Empathy Trap Website
by: grin&bearIt (aka anon)

Hello Fellow Empaths & Estranged Parents. I posted a link to an excellent article yesterday. Some of you were unable to open it. I found the article in PDF form and, hopefully, this will work. Please let me know if it doesn't. This article explained so well what I have been in the dark about for so long. I hope the light it sheds will help you as much as it helped me.

http://www.addictiontoday.org/files/addictiontoday145-sociopath-empath-apath-triad.pdf

P.S. If this doesn't work you should be able to cut/copy and paste the link into your browser window for it to open. Good luck!

Apr 15, 2014
About the link - Sociopaths, Apaths, & Empaths
by: Anonymous

That is a very good article, grin&bearIt! Thank you for posting it. This paragraph explains much about my situation with our Son-in-law:

"Often empaths are targeted by sociopaths because they pose the greatest threat. The empath is usually the first to detect that something is not right and express what s/he senses. As a consequence, the empath is both the sociopath’s number one foe and a source of attraction; the empath’s responses and actions provide excellent entertainment for sociopaths, who use and abuse people for sport."

This is so very helpful. I have a son who is an empath like me, my biggest ally. I wish I could say that my husband is, too. But he is an apath, which means that he'd rather go with the flow. He does side with me, but he doesn't see things right away, which means that he doesn't support me right there on the spot when I am under attack. Of course, my son is also under attack when SIL and daughter come to town - like today!

My daughter and granddaughter arrive this evening. They are staying with us... the relationship hangs on a thread. I've posted several times about our situation before. It's very similar to others' here. We had words yesterday, she has become a narcissist herself. She threatened to go stay with her in-laws - they shower her and her sociopath/narcissist husband with praise. She said to me, "they've told me I am always welcome to stay with them, but you didn't invite me to stay at home when I said I was coming." What?! Now I have to "invite" my children to stay at my house when they are in town? Long story... but, she was told a while back that when she is with her husband, she needs to stay with her inlaws... just a boundary we had to set before I lost my mind, or my son lost his self-control.

Thanks for the article!

Apr 15, 2014
link?
by: YG

Tried that link Grin&bearit, I copied & paste but wouldn't go through??

Apr 14, 2014
An interesting website
by: grin&bearIt

I am amazed and encouraged by all of your intelligent, heartfelt & empathic responses to each other. I wrote the earlier comment about divided families as "anonymous" and for the last 3 years have been trying to understand the strange dynamics of these people with personality disorders that we are all dealing with. I found an interesting article at this website that I thought you might be interested in: http://www.addictiontoday.org/addictiontoday/2013/10/empathy-trap-sociopath-triangle.html. I'd love to hear your comments and feedback.

Apr 14, 2014
A sincere thank you!
by: Scarlet Jones

I loved the poem "Estranged". I also am stunned that you were called such a vile name. I wonder what she would have done if you had stopped the car and walked toward her. Probably run in the opposite direction.

My heart goes out to everyone on this page. We are truly the "Club of Sorrows".

I always say to name caller's or people that cuss is the reason why you call names is that you don't have anything to say.

I know you are shocked at the change of behavior. I am amazed at the influence narcissists have on their victims.

Still having good days and bad but so grateful for the support and compassion of people that know what it is like to deal with a person like this.

Apr 14, 2014
Unbelievable
by: Nosmiles

Oh YG, it's unbelievable it really is. Such venom from a daughter to her mother is, well I don't know what to say. Yes, we do 'know' one another, and even knowing what you've already been through I'm shocked beyond belief.

Lack of family support is so upsetting Scarlett; being asked 'to do something about it' not only gives the impression that we have a power that doesn't exist, but also implies that we are some how responsible. As do those annoying pieces of advice such as 'be the bigger and/or better person'.

Know one, not family or our oldest and dearest friends can fully understand what we all go through. For some, they are able to sympathise and give the most amasing levels of support, but for others, and it is so much harder when these are family members, it is quite simply illogical for such treatment to be metered out with out provocation.

We must have done something for this to be happening, may be if we had it would be easier to understand and live with. The pain of being rejected and seemingly hated by your own child who you've loved and cared for from the beginning is, as has been said, a living bereavement. There are no cards of condolence and flowers for comfort, just this never ending pain of separation, because we can't stop believing that 'where there's life there's hope'.

Apr 14, 2014
Here's the poem
by: YG

Estranged" ....A Mother's Day poem

So long ago, I carried you
Feeing your tiny body just under my heart
Smiling when I felt you turn and roll.

Heart pounding, I held you in my arms
Caressed your tiny fingers
Scared of the love I felt.

What if something happens to you?
Should I guard my heart?
Too late...heart's already gone.
I'm crazy for you.

You only wanted Mummy,
Then you only wanted Daddy.
We were your world.

Until you didn't want me
Anymore.

Today defeated and numb
I say goodbye
To what I wish were true.

I set you free
to live your life
to never come back to me.

Do I hope? Always.
Do I wish you'd change? Of course.
Is it likely? No.
Do I regret having you? Never.
Do I forgive you? You didn't ask.
Did I cause the mess in your life? No
Am I happy without you? I'm working on it.
Do I like myself? Getting there.

Do I like you? No
Do I love you?

Always.

Apr 14, 2014
Same sad stories!
by: YG

Yes our stories are all very much the same, my story is below somewhere, Nosmiles & I 'know' each other from another thread, so fully aware of all the sad & horrible situations over the years!
I went out and bought cute Easter cards for my beloved GC, which I want to send next week and I will put a beautiful peom in for my D called 'A Mother's day poem" very poignant, about how much a Mother loves her child, but will now let go. I'll try to post it on here later.
I have still been hoping for a knock on the door, a txt,email or even a hand written letter from my D, but yesterday all hope was finally dashed & I know I must move on & forget my beloved GC&D and I will not see them grow up, for sure now!
We live only 5mins away, off the same through road. I was driving in my car down said rd. when I passed a couple walking, that I then realized was my D & Narssistic s.i.l, they saw me first and as I passed my D shouted out very loud so I heard it as I passed in my car.."C**T" & my s.i.l shouted "nasty bitch" my toddler GS was walking along side them & I take it my darling little GD was in the buggy, but I passed so quick I didn't see. It really shook me up as I was hoping that maybe their marriage was becoming rocky again, as it always was before I & the rest of our family were 'cut out'
That evening my Nice D txt/ph me as she had been on FB where her cousin had put that he had collapsed with an ulcer & had been taken to hospital! ND wrote underneath 'wish you better....' then D (with Narsistic s.i.l) wrote..'.....that c**t above couldn't care less so fake, f***ing bitch' but of course without the stars.
You would think my D had been draged up, reading all this, but no, she had a really good upbringing & only started acting like this when we were all cut out of her & her C lives! I think he has got her on cocain (which he takes all the time along with pot), as that would explain her terrible behaviour. So from all that I realize & have to except there is no hope now!

Apr 13, 2014
I feel your pain....
by: Scarlet Jones

Nosmiles yes we have had no family support. My extended family confronted me at Christmas saying do whatever it takes to resolve this meaning I have control over it. I have come to understand that people not involved do not understand narcissism.

My youngest daughter is getting married in August. She tells me on two occasions having to let her and her fiance out of the house because my daughter & narcissist disappear when invited over. What horrible treatment from her sister! I am shocked. I told my youngest daughter when they invite you over and disappear, let yourselves out but don't close the door! The unspoken message being if you won't walkus to the door andclose it behind us? We won't close the door either!!!

Our grandchild has just turned two. My youngest daughter is not allowed to hold her. My grandchild has no highchair and the nsrcissist holds her while he eats. Another message is "mine"!

I would never have had a relationship. So just waiting on how long my youngest daughter will allow herself to be treated this way. I hope not long....

Apr 13, 2014
Divided Family
by: Nosmiles

Dear anonymous, I have just read your post and I wanted to tell you that you could have been writing about our own situation.

I last posted on here in March. I had trouble sending my message through which is why I kept on trying and it was then posted 3 times! - sorry about that. We thought we'd had a break through but unfortunately although it was just a tiny glimmer of hope, things now appear to have gone back to the way they were, and have been for 2 years.

Our dil's mother warned my husband that she was controlling, and if ever offended, there would be no going back. Like you, we couldn't have envisioned the extent of her ability to control, to divide and all but destroy our family with her lies and manipulative behavior.

Not only have we been denied contact with our son, but our only grandchild who was 2 at the beginning of the year, and who we haven't seen since he was 8 months old.

My mil up until the New Year, continued to have contact with them because despite the way we were being treated, she didn't want to lose contact with our son and her great grand child. I understand your pain, I too could not be indifferent to the pain and suffering of those I love in order to satisfy my own desires.

We received a particularly nasty letter on Christmas Eve which was pushed through our letter box together with our small Christmas gift, a book, to our grandchild.

My mil, eventually realising the true horror and extent of our treatment wrote to our son telling him that she'd always love him but could no longer tolerate his treatment of his parents and so couldn't see him any more.

You are not alone, there are thousands of parents and grand parents being denied their children and grand children due to the narcissitic nature of the partners they have chosen.

Our son has turned his back on almost all of his own family accept his older brother. Our eldest son's at times refusal to accept that what we tell him is indeed the truth, has been particularly hurtful and has resulted in some very emotive and damaging conversations. We now feel however, that he is becoming more understanding of the pain we've had too, and continue to endure.

I realise now that he does try and tell his brother when he disagrees with they way he behaves, but is also concerned about their relationship being damaged. We do not want them to fall out, but that doesn't stop the feeling of being hurt and unfairly judged by our eldest son.

Only those who go through what we are going through can truly understand and know how terrible this is. Through no fault of their own, you family simply cannot begin to understand the extent of your pain and suffering, but try to be patient, it may take some time but like my mil, they may get there in the end.



Apr 12, 2014
DIL Dividing Our Family
by: Anonymous

My dil is a narcissist and, perhaps, a sociopath. Since meeting her my once close relationship with my son has deteriorated and I now haven't seen him in over a year. Before they were married my dil's mother (and then later both of her parents) told my husband and I that she was very controlling. We said no more and neither did they. So many people may be labeled "controlling" and I didn't think much of it. Boy, did we get a shock! In less than 4 years my dil has not only caused the estrangement of my son, but has divided my family and created dissension and chaos among us. Though my family is somewhat sympathetic, they also do not see my son's (whose hatred and abuse toward me has reached epic proportions) and dil's behavior as a serious problem. They want to continue a relationship with my son and dil and tell me that my son and dil have done nothing to them. If someone were abusing my loved one I could not maintain a relationship with them knowing this. I am constantly upset, not just at the loss of my relationship with my son, but with my family's unwillingness to take a stronger stand in supporting me. Has anyone else had this problem?

Mar 18, 2014
Don't give up
by: Nosmiles

It's been a while since I came on here and your latest post resonated with me Bob, it was an exact replica of my own situation. Our son cut us out of his life and in particular his friends have accused us of having done that to him. One recently accused us of destroying him.

Such is the powerful influence of our d.i.l. we really believed our situation was hopeless, that is until very recently, we learned that our son has left her.

We have even managed tentative direct contact, the first for me in 18 months. It is very early days and we have no idea what the future may hold but the fact that he has left is truly miraculous. Tragic as there is a young child involved, our grand child, but no less miraculous for that.

We decided some time ago to get out of the game as allowing ourselves to be her pawns would only result in more pain and suffering.

So please don't give up. However impossible your dreams may be keep hold of them. We always believed she would eventually over play her hand and it would seem that she has done so.

There is of course the possibility that he will go back, but from what we know he's adamant that the marriage is over.

Perhaps refusing to play the game took some of the pressure from him, and he realised that the only pressure was her's.

Keep the flame of hope burning, and please God all our children will be released from the clutches of their narcissitic partners, and will return to their parents and families who love and miss them so much.

Mar 18, 2014
Don't give up
by: Nosmiles

It's been a while since I came on here and your latest post resonated with me Bob, it was an exact replica of my own situation. Our son cut us out of his life and in particular his friends have accused us of having done that to him. One recently accused us of destroying him.

Such is the powerful influence of our d.i.l. we really believed our situation was hopeless, that is until very recently, we learned that our son has left her.

We have even managed tentative direct contact, the first for me in 18 months. It is very early days and we have no idea what the future may hold but the fact that he has left is truly miraculous. Tragic as there is a young child involved, our grand child, but no less miraculous for that.

We decided some time ago to get out of the game as allowing ourselves to be her pawns would only result in more pain and suffering.

So please don't give up. However impossible your dreams may be keep hold of them. We always believed she would eventually over play her hand and it would seem that she has done so.

There is of course the possibility that he will go back, but from what we know he's adamant that the marriage is over.

Perhaps refusing to play the game took some of the pressure from him, and he realised that the only pressure was her's.

Keep the flame of hope burning, and please God all our children will be released from the clutches of their narcissitic partners, and will return to their parents and families who love and miss them so much.

Mar 18, 2014
Don't give up
by: Nosmiles

It's been a while since I came on here and your latest post resonated with me Bob, it was an exact replica of my own situation. Our son cut us out of his life and in particular his friends have accused us of having done that to him. One recently accused us of destroying him.

Such is the powerful influence of our d.i.l. we really believed our situation was hopeless, that is until very recently, we learned that our son has left her.

We have even managed tentative direct contact, the first for me in 18 months. It is very early days and we have no idea what the future may hold but the fact that he has left is truly miraculous. Tragic as there is a young child involved, our grand child, but no less miraculous for that.

We decided some time ago to get out of the game as allowing ourselves to be her pawns would only result in more pain and suffering.

So please don't give up. However impossible your dreams may be keep hold of them. We always believed she would eventually over play her hand and it would seem that she has done so.

There is of course the possibility that he will go back, but from what we know he's adamant that the marriage is over.

Perhaps refusing to play the game took some of the pressure from him, and he realised that the only pressure was her's.

Keep the flame of hope burning, and please God all our children will be released from the clutches of their narcissitic partners, and will return to their parents and families who love and miss them so much.

Mar 01, 2014
So true
by: Bob

Scarlet, your situation sounds much like ours. We have been cut out of our sons life but the story seems to have been reversed making us the ones who have cut him out. I have even had his friends and family telling me to save him. But how can l when he has told me l am no longer a part of his family and stay away. All l hear are contradictory stories. I would love for him to return but refuse to to these lies on board. Trouble is my dil is an expert on propaganda , she has had a lifetimes experience, we are only amateurs.

Feb 28, 2014
Good Advice
by: Scarlet Konrs

I agree with the advice from everyone. I would meet with him and tape the session. Beware though. They always have a agenda and are strategic planners. I feel your pain. Take care that he doesn't mistreat you. They are great liars. I mentioned my family on my husband's side cornered me at Christmas. My SIL lied to my family and told them it was my daughter that was keeping the breach going and not him the louse. They believe him and my family thinks it's all me. Still I won't sacrifice my self esteem and kiss his rear end. Nothing would change even if I did.
I keep hoping my daughter will come knock on the door and we would welcome her with open arms. Our GC is fixing to celebrate her 2nd birthday in April. I feel sad but remember that we are not the ones holding a person hostage as punishment.
So I feel sad but realize it is out of my control. I am disappointed that my daughter won't budge on the issue.
I hope he is worth giving up her parents. Must be as she is still with him.

Feb 28, 2014
Sociopaths
by: Bob

The trouble l,ve found with lies is that most people don't recognize a sociopath, usually only their victims. Most people think it must be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other and you even get the full blame, because sociopaths live by having an enemy to create empathy from an ally. Very often the allies then become the victims as we have found out to our cost. It's an ongoing cycle of devastation and the truth is. Most people don't believe you, even close family members. The only way of winning the game is not to play it anymore which is what we do. Very hard, but gradually you find yourself a little more, bit by bit and who knows maybe one day you,ll regain some peace?

Feb 28, 2014
Sociopaths
by: Bob

The trouble l,ve found with lies is that most people don't recognize a sociopath, usually only their victims. Most people think it must be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other and you even get the full blame, because sociopaths live by having an enemy to create empathy from an ally. Very often the allies then become the victims as we have found out to our cost. It's an ongoing cycle of devastation and the truth is. Most people don't believe you, even close family members. The only way of winning the game is not to play it anymore which is what we do. Very hard, but gradually you find yourself a little more, bit by bit and who knows maybe one day you,ll regain some peace?

Feb 28, 2014
Good advise
by: YG

Hello Bob
That is so true about the lies,my s.i.l is a pathological liar, he cannot say a sentence without a lie in it and his lies about me have been mind blowing!
Such good advice about recording the conversations. I have always thought how great it would be to run a recording of his lies followed by a video of what really happened and was said, any one got a magic wand?
Best of luck to you Bob, with your Son and GS, hope you sort it out and get to see them again soon.
xx

Feb 28, 2014
Be carefull
by: Bob

You're right it doesnt get any easier. Someone said its like a living bereavement. The last time l spoke to my son was nearly a year ago, l made no progress. I miss him like crazy and my grandson too. I remember being invited to his stag weekend and sharing a room, it was a real honor but seems a lifetime away now. He has changed so much. If this son in law is anything like my daughter in law then beware, he will not be interested in anything that is good for your or your grandchildren only himself and his main weapon will be lies. So l would say too, yes meet him, but if possible tape the conversation.

Feb 28, 2014
meet him
by: YG

Hello new anon and welcome to the club of sorrows.
Meet him and do what ever it takes to get your D & GC back. I would give anything for the chance. I haven't seen my beloved D & GC for 15mnths and my heart and soul are broken. My story is almost identical to yours! I know I will never get to see them again until they are no longer together. The pain doesn't lessen with time, I had a really bad night last night, thinking about them, even though I now take 'Kalms night" to help me sleep.
So go and meet him, eat humble pie and then if you are allowed to see your D&GC, see them and stay out of his way, thats what I would do.
Good luck and let us know, how it went, I will be very interested to know. xx

Feb 27, 2014
Help
by: Anonymous

Since I have read these post from everyone I'm starting to realize I'm not crazy , this is happening to me now my son n law cheated on my daughter. And she left him for a period , and she is the one who told us about his crazy behavior when she left him she told us what is was called , what I don't understand why she was drawn back to him , now he has managed to take her completely away from us and our two grandchildren also the oldest child is not even his but the father has nothing to do with him so we can't even see him , now my crazy son n law is the only one communicating with us and he told us we can't see the kids until we have a meeting with him , every thing has to be on his terms , does anybody have a answer should we meet with him or not I'm thinking he might be trying to stage something and make us look even worst to my daughter

Dec 31, 2013
Happy New Year!
by: Scarlet Jones

I personally am glad to see 2013 go. Only cloud over the horizon is the wedding. Thank you No Smiles for your post.

It always amazes me that narcissistic people do the same things to those who have shared their stories with me.

All of you have helped me and I wish you the best year possible in 2014!:)

Dec 31, 2013
NY
by: YG

"HAPPY NEW YEAR" Scarlet and all on here, let's hope 2014 will be a better year for us all and who knows how our lives will be, come Christmas of 2014. Love to you all and Good luck for 2014. xxxxx

Dec 31, 2013
Declared sane
by: Nosmiles

Thank you once again Scarlet for your invaluable insight. I was so relieved to read the final paragraph of your first message about being expected to be able to resolve the awful situation.

Some family members, friends and mere acquaintances have said to me countless times that I should do what ever it takes to bring about a resolution. Be the bigger/better person, have a balanced view, keep your thoughts and feelings to yourself, don't over react, react only with love, don't react at all.

I have always felt that there is nothing I can do and felt that perhaps there was something wrong with me for thinking in this way; I feel so much better now that I've read your update.

My narcissitic d.i.l. hides behind my son in the same way your s.i.l. hides behind your daughter.

When I first came on to this site, a couple of months ago I think, I looked at the section entitled 'Winning the game' where I read that, in a nuts' shell, you can't win the game. The only way of winning is to get out of the game. When I tell my critics this they look at me as if I am mad. Reading your update has really helped me to be more confident that I am not.

Dec 29, 2013
Thank you
by: Scarlet Jones

No one but those on this board who have experienced having the unfortunate experience of having a narcissist enter their family understand. They just don't get it do they?

My DH frustrated with the situation has just given a copy of the email stream between me and the narcissist a year ago to all his brothers and sisters. In this email the narcissist is telling me off and telling me to go bully someone else and that I can't have a relationship with my GC. My DH wants family to see the lack of respect this man has shown for his new MIL and what type of person he is.

So far I have not heard a thing back. I think they all are in over their heads with this situation and don't know what to think now.

My DH has been talking to me as the wound has ripped open and I go into self defense mode and feel depressed. I asked him what if family turns on me? In my email exchange with the narcissist I am very upset and they might not understand because at the time I knew I had lost my daughter and GC. I said they might just have a issue with me too. That was a dark period in my life at the time. I was reeling from the rejection I felt at the time.

DH says it doesn't matter what they think because we are the ones dealing with the situation, not them. He is right and has helped me "try" to not let all this stuff bother me.

I don't know what I would do if I didn't have my husband.

Thanks so much to all of you!

Dec 29, 2013
no control
by: YG

Your right Scarlet, we have no control over this very sad situation, I would do anything to get my D and GC back and this is not of my making (same with you), but I know there is nothing I can do, so very sad! I have no option but to silently wait and hope. Only when they are no longer together have I a chance of my D and GC return.

Dec 29, 2013
Me too!
by: YG

Merry Christmas Scarlet
I read your post with much interest as I am in the same boat as you, (my posts below). We have a wedding (of sorts) coming up. My children's father, who lives in Indonesia, is coming over to wed his wife again,here the UK, as their marriage in Indonesia is not recognised here. So my Nice daughter(cut out too) is wondering what is going to happen regarding her sister (my D) and also there would be a possibility of my GC being bridesmaid and pageboy.
I enjoyed my Christmas with my ND and her in-laws on Christmas day, and with my friends, and New year will be with my friends too. But this situation has meant that I have not seen my prev. in-laws (children's fathers side) over the whole Christmas time, as I would normally do,even down to Christmas dinner together, as my prev. f.i.l sided with narcissistic s.i.l. I also haven't seen my Son for the same reason.
My D and s.i.l live a few mins drive away and my Son spent the whole Christmas hols(eve-Fri) at theirs, having Christmas dinner with s.i.l mother and never came to see me or phone or anything!

Dec 28, 2013
Christmas for us and a update
by: Scarlet Jones

We had Christmas over at my youngest daughters home with the relatives. The daughter I lost has stopped going to family get togethers. She also meets with her sister outside of the narcissist family. For some reason they keep his family from being around my youngest daughter and husband. I figure because he has told a big fat lie and doesn't want any chance of his family approaching my youngest daughter to find out what really happened. My youngest daughter is engaged to be married August of this year. I love the man she is to marry. My only chance for me and my husband to have a chance at being grandparents is through this union. This is a loving normal relationship with a wonderful man.

I just saw my grandchild on a Christmas ornament. My daughter went over to the tree and gave me the ornament and I looked at a very beautiful child. She is now 17 months old. Does not know us and nothing is changed. I spoke out and said "this is so sad". I have no bond with this child. I gave the ornament to my husband who looked at the picture and agreed she is beautiful but we have no connection or bond with her.

My brother-in-law was very upset and has a big heart. I could not get angry with him. He told me the situation was tearing him up and that I should do whatever it takes to resolve the situation. He also reminded me that this is my daughter. What is so sad is family somehow feels I am in control of the situation and I am not. The narcissist has convinced everyone that he doesn't care (which I do agree as he has no empathy) and that it is my daughter that keeps the breach going. This is not true. Her husband is hiding behind his wife and she is protecting him. What a liar he is.

Get this if you can believe it. The high end rich narcissist is offering to pay for my daughter's honeymoon. In return they asked if my grandchild that I have never seen could be the flower girl. Can you believe the gall? I would be seeing my grandchild for the first time and not allowed to approach her. This done in front of everyone at the wedding. I told my daughter that if she loses her honeymoon because my GC can't be the flower girl that it is not a gift but a bribe. I was assured that my GC is too young and won't be in the wedding. It will be hard enough to see the narcissist with my daughter at this wedding. Yes he plans to go probably so he can stand up and stroke his ego by announcing that they are giving them their honeymoon. I am not sure how I am going to cope with this situation.

The way everyone in my family acts is that I have control and I should do whatever it takes to resolve the issue.



Dec 19, 2013
OMG
by: YG

So sorry to hear your sad tale, and welcome to the club of sorrows. Christmas is the worst time of year for us all, this is my second one without my beloved D & GC :-(( My story is below, same as yours. Im now thinking I will never see them again and yes the pain and sorrow is continuous!

Dec 19, 2013
omg...
by: Anonymous

I can't believe this...I feel so enlightened hearing these stories...My daughter is not the same person, appears to want nothing to do with us, and we cannot get through to her so we can see our 2 (only 2 we have) grandchildren. This is the worst pain we will ever, ever endure in our life...
I am so hurt by our daughter, and despise our son-in-law...at this point I really just care about our grandchildren who we have not seen in
9 1/2 months. My heart breaks. My granddaughter
who is 4 3/4 and I were totally bonded. I am so afraid she has forgotten all about me. My grandson is 2 1/2 and he doesn't even know us.
I wear this pain all the time. My husband and I see a CSW and I take Celexia...but the loss of our gc and the pain is, and will always be there.

Nov 26, 2013
Empathy
by: Anonymous

Lack of empathy is one of the major traits of the narcissist.
It is very strange to see how detached this type of person is.

Nov 26, 2013
Empathy
by: Anonymous

Lack of empathy is one of the major traits of the narcissist.
It is very strange to see how detached this type of person is.

Nov 26, 2013
Is this normal, even for a narcissist?
by: Anonymous

Recently learned that my daughter in law's parents marriage has broken up. The third party who told me this said they were shocked at her complete lack of concern. There appears to be absolutely no empathy in her at all. Is this normal, even for a narcissist?

Nov 19, 2013
Thank you Scarlett
by: Nosmiles

Thank you Scarlett for your wise words. I realised some time ago that we are better off having no contact with our S and d.i.l. even though it is the most painful experience my hus. and I have ever encountered. No contact with them equates to no contact with our grand son

We have to protect our selves and the only way we can do that is to keep our distance. We are getting on with our lives as best we can; putting on a brave face. We're getting so good at the pretense that I sense our other son is confused at how well we are coping! if only he knew.

Please don't regret going to court YG. You were prepared to fight and do what ever it took to see your gc. You demonstrated the courage that I lacked. I just couldn't face sitting there and hearing the lies come out of the mouth of my own child who I'd loved with all of my heart. As much as I love my gs. that was a price I just couldn't pay.

Nov 17, 2013
Apologizing?
by: Scarlet Jones

YG if you had bent over and let them kick you in the rear nothing would have changed except that you would not have been true to yourself AND you would have gotten a hard kick,at the same time justifying their treatment of you AND been asked to go out and eat worms and still nothing would have changed. They would have gone "see we were right in treating her this way"!!!

I admire you for being courageous enough to go to court. I personally believe you were meant to go through that court process as a confirmation that your best effort would not change a thing. So always be true to yourself and do not give the narcissist power of you. Remember that they need a circle of people around them to pay homage to their superiority while at the expense of their self worth. You don't want that for yourself. I would be miserable in like circumstances.

The number one person that you can keep out of harms way is yourself. Take care of yourself and I believe God is too. He knows it won't work out and why go there to get treated worse? No I know that God does not want that for anyone who experiences a person like this.

All narcissist operate the same. That is why your situation is the way it is and all of our stories are nearly the same. Self protection is key and letting yourself enjoy life again.

My being happy is what I want them to see. Over time our grown children will see that they have lost much and I am praying for the desire to look clearly at the situation and question why it is ok for the narcissist to have her associate with her family but not her own.

Everything happens for a reason and you did nothing wrong. Nothing wrong YG.

Their are consequences playing out on their side. I know for one that there is a big elephant in the room every time they have company over at their home and her parents are not present. A big elephant is present at our GC's birthday parties with all the other grandparents being there and her own parents are not there.

My DH keeps reminding me do you really want her back given the way things are and keep being mistreated. The bottom line is NO......

Nov 17, 2013
God!
by: YG

Oh God Scarlet!
Your post has put a chill down my spine regarding reconiliation. But I know your right about our D needing to have the fog lifted from their brains and leaving the Narcissit will be the only way we'll get them and our GC back. Also about our D being brain washed into their way of thinking!
I wish every day now, that I hadn't gone to court and know now, that it was the worst thing I could have done, but at the time my brain was awash with grief, so not working properly.
I wish with all my heart that I had gone round and apologized with flowers and a card, even though I didn't do or say anything wrong (in my eyes) and I'm thinking that if I had done this I may now be seeing them all again.

Nov 16, 2013
Your figuring it out
by: Scarlet Jones

The one thing I believe both of you are figuring out is that it won't work in a reconciliation the way things are because the narcissist can't change unless by some miracle he or she can develope empathy. Not going to happen unless there is a vaccine to give as a cure.
My DH and I both don't regret the narcissist being out of our lives. I know all on this page relate to that,
I have come to realize that a relationship won't work with the relationship issues being the same.
We know that our daughter will have to have God pull the blinders off and she severs the relationship.
We are not expecting any change because our daughter has conformed to his way of thinking. It is mind control.
Let yourself grieve over the loss of the relationship.
I am learning to accept and be there for the ones that want me in their lives.

Nov 15, 2013
Answered prayer!
by: Nosmiles

I was given this link from a lovely lady from another forum I have been using. I haven't seen my gs for over a year; when he was only 8 months old. My S and his wife live literally a two minute walk down the road, and I haven't spoken to my S for almost 14 months.

I have been struck by the similarities between our nightmare and the nightmares of others that I have encountered on that forum. Then yesterday I started to read about narcissism in more detail and it is as if I am reading about my d.i.l. I found this really difficult bec. I even began to feel some sympathy for her as I am aware of the difficult childhood she had and the dysfunctional family that she came from.

My sympathy quickly receded the moment I began to recount the she has almost destroyed my wonderful family and the most amazing relationship I had with my once loving and kind S.

This situation has been going on for almost 2 years now, and for 2 years I have prayed endlessly for an end to our misery. I have been angry with God for seemingly doing nothing about it. As our place in our S's life weakened, her strength increased.

I was, only a couple of weeks ago, talking about this with a friend when it dawned on me that God was listening, loving and helping me. If it hadn't been for my faith this would have destroyed me. There have been days when I'd wished it would. Nights when I would tell God that if it was OK with him for me not to wake up in the morning, it was OK with me too.

God has been answering my prayers all along, just not in the way I wanted. I have had a lot of fear, I am a strong person, never afraid to stand up for what I believe in, believe to be right and for those that I love. But what she has done frightens me. It frightens me that someone can desire too, and succeed in causing so much pain and suffering to people who had welcomed her in to their home, their family and their hearts.

Every night I ask God to protect me. I have been asking for His protection the whole time. I believe He is protecting me; having no contact with my S means no contact with her. In this heartbreaking situation, this at least keeps her away from me.

I don't know what the future holds, I do believe that one day my gs will find us, his grandparents, and will be a part of our lives. I know this cannot happen for many years but this small hope helps to sustain me during my darkest days.

Nov 15, 2013
Thank you
by: YG

Thank you for your kind words anon xx
Its One year today since my s.i.l told me to "F***-OFF" One year since I held them in my arms and gave them a kiss, cuddle and told them I love them, how very sad I am today (and every day!)
Its true what is said on here about 'staying out of the game to win', I went into the game, so now no hope of ever seeing them again, unless my D spilts up with nasty s.i.l

Nov 14, 2013
Maybe God is answering your prayer
by: Anonymous

Sometimes we want God to answer our prayer our way. In order to make sense of this situation, I have put my trust in God in knowing what is best for all involved. I believe God is protecting me, my daughter and GC. Our daughters are grown and living their lives the way they choose. If that means a life without me then I hope she is happy. However, there are consequences she will suffer because of her decision. They have lost a lot as well.
So be happy YG and remember you are still your daughters mom and a grandma. Nobody can take that away from you.

Nov 13, 2013
Why does God not answer my prayer?
by: YG

Thank you anon and star Jones,
I read your post with much interest, and sadness.
I too pray for my D each and every night, with a bible in one hand and my little GD's tiny socks in the other, putting them together to pray. A friend once said to me, regarding my s.i.l " It's like he is speaking Spanish and you English, he will never understand you, or you he!"
I wish God would hear my prayer and reunite me with my beloved D+GC

Nov 13, 2013
2013 Update of my situation
by: Star Jones

It is now 2 years out from my estrangement from my daughter and we have never met my grandchild who I hear is beautiful. My husband and I saw our daughter
at a family wedding. She did not speak to me or her father. My daughter and sister-in-law were invited to my grandchild's birthday party and sat with the company employee's to witness presents being opened up but had no personal contact with my estranged daughter. My daughters relationships between each other very distant and have become so detached that they are like strangers and hardly talk on the phone. My sister-in-law made an attempt at the wedding after we had left to reason with my estranged daughter and this was met with tears and that relationship is now estranged. We do not expect to see my daughter anymore.
None of this is new when you have someone with this type of personality disorder in your life.
The good news is I have found peace with the situation. I say this to give hope to others who have lost parts of their family through this type of individual. I have come to grieve over the loss of the daughter I raised. As for the person my daughter has become through contact with this individual,I will say I don't know who she is. Time moves on and you will find over time that the sun comes out again and you will feel sad at the loss but happiness will come back to your life in time. There is a no win situation trying to cope with a person such as my daughter married.
The good news is the whole family is seeing this individual for what he is and my relationships with my family and youngest daughter is stronger than ever. My daughter's husband did not attend because he can't look me or my family in the face. He is a coward underneath is God complex.
I pray for my estranged daughter and grandchild every day. My prayer is that her husband does not mistreat her or turn on her in any way. And finally she knows through a letter from us that she has not lost us and is welcomed back into our life if she ever chooses to do so. That would be a wonderful prayer answered indeed. Happiness is back and I cherish those in my life that I love.

Nov 12, 2013
To YG and son-in-law's perspective
by: Anonymous

YG I am so sorry your situation did not improve going to court. I want to compliment you on being so courageous and no one can never say you tried with your whole heart to resolve a bad situation even through the courts. We both know it should never come to that. In normal relationships you sit down with the people and work out a reconciliation. When you have a narcissist in your life there will be no reconciliation. Keep in mind I don't refer to them as son-in-law as they have a personality disorder. Keep remembering that you are not alone in this and I for one will never minimize your pain and most importantly will say that I believe you and all the cruel things you experienced from the narcissist in your life. My heart goes out to you.

My comments to a son-in-law from your side or perspective is this. You sound like you are defending the narcissist by trying to make him normal. Narcissist have severe personality disorders. They are not normal individuals. Does all these comments sound one sided? Yes they usually are as the narcissist loves inflicting pain on their victims. This page is for people that have suffered at the hands of these individuals and need help through the compassion of others that have experienced the same thing. We do not need to hear the comments from people that can't relate because they don't have any personal experience dealing with narcissist.

Nov 12, 2013
1 year this month :-((
by: YG

Hello all
I posted on here in April, it's now 1yr this week since I saw my beloved D+GC, my heart and soul are broken to pieces. I did and said nothing wrong to be 'cut out of their lives'.
I went to court 3 times; first time they didn't show, second they opposed, third the petition to apply to court was refused,the judge said he could see animosity on both sides. I now know it was a big mistake to go to court, worst thing you could do with Narcissist,his whole statement was a lie, drawn up by his mum, he lied in the court and committed fraud and perjury. They all waited for me outside the court, his mother said "I wrote the statements and they believed the bloody lot" my s.i.l said "and they (GC) wont even be at your funeral" My other D (sister) is also cut out along with aunties and best friends, so my D only has his family and friends in her life. My s.i.l is my GD step-dad, so she has had all her real blood relatives cut out and is calling his cruel mother nannie, when in fact she is no blood relative at all!
I actuall come on here to say 'Thank you" to the anon s.i.l who posted on here, it was good of you to do so, and you sound like a very nice fella,and an undertanding one too. If you were my s.i.l I think we would get on just fine

Nov 12, 2013
To previous poster
by: Anonymous

Actually, there are bad apples and not everyone has a good side when it comes to these things. If you look at the bible, there are many examples that God has given us of situations where one was good and the other bad, like Cain and Abel.

Nov 12, 2013
To previous poster
by: Anonymous

Actually, there are bad apples and not everyone has a good side when it comes to these things. If you look at the bible, there are many examples that God has given us of situations where one was good and the other bad, like Cain and Abel.

Nov 11, 2013
From son in law
by: Anonymous

This is a view from a son-in-law. Most of these comments seem to be one-sided. I think it is important to understand the view of the son-in-law too.Maybe that will give you an idea of what it is to be like on the other side. Maybe, your husband was also like us and you were like your daughter when it came to interacting with your parents or in-laws.

From a son-in-law's perspective, he wants to be the numero uno in his wife's eyes. Anything less, he will not feel like he deserves that.Having wife's parents in-house means that they are getting her attention and besides god knows what they might be discussing with her (his thinking). It is a known fact (most of the times) that his wife does not get along with his parents as well. So he thinks they might be talking about them. Remember, he is not a bad person at all because your daughter chose to marry him. Call these his insecurities but don't forget that he is a human after all. These need not be present in every son-in-law but they might be, although in varying degrees.

I have a father-in-law who likes to be the center of attention. He had his wife dancing around him all his life. My MIL loves me (so far). So if I get her attention or my wife's attention, he will do things to break that. For ex. he will point out the bad sides of what I am speaking on, or he will try to push his decisions in our family matters, etc.

In summary, there are bad apples on both sides. Also remember these are not completely bad apples though. Try to find good sides in both of these types to have a harmonious life.Otherwise it will put a lot of stress, like someone here who tries not be alone with her son-in-law during those 10 days when he is at her house.I can only imagine how difficult it could be.


Apr 18, 2013
Thanks for sharing what happened
by: Scarlett Jones

Yes it is a major victory that you are on speaking terms with your daughter. It amazes me that they were targeting your parenting skills. It seems narcissitic individuals must go to school to learn these tactics because they are so similar.

Turning back time I wish I had asked my daughter why is it ok with you that your husband can talk down your own mother?
She is giving her silent approval when she says nothing. If she have any issues with you she should come to you. That is the only way to work out problems with her and stop ghe brainwashing is keeping communication open. A narcissitic individual closes communication down to start strife.

I feel your daughter is trying to hang on to your relationship but is in a bad place not wanting to betray him. At least I hope so.

There should be a debriefing with a therapist to undo the brainwashing if they ever break free.

As for having any bonding with your grandkids, I understand what you mean. I watched him totally control his son from his first marriage and felt sad for his mom. She would complain go him on the phone about not seeing her grandson and he told my daughter that his mom is trying to put him on a guilt trip. My youngest daughter complains that she gets pictures but has no relationship with our grandchild. There are no surprises there.

I am praying for you. There is comfort in knowing you are not alone and that there is nothing you have done and we all can support each other.

Apr 16, 2013
Update
by: Anonymous

I posted about our daughter's family visiting and staying with us recently. They left last week. We are still recovering from the ten days they were here. What a nightmare that was. We are still on speaking terms with our daughter, so I guess I should count that as a victory. Somehow, it doesn't feel like one, but I know it could have been worse.
The reason they went after my son while he was staying ("housesitting") at our friends' home to get away from our son-in-law was simply to undermine us as parents. They got a hold of him later, and my daughter told him that the lifestyle of order and structure she had to live under when she was in high school had stiffled her creativity, blah, blah... Why? Because we don't have a home where it's everyone for themselves, no meals together as a family, no bedtimes - children of all ages staying up till two or three in the morning, etc. A home where meals were prepared and people go to bed at 10:00-11:00 is stiffling these days. Sure, that must be why she graduated from college Cum Laude and he didn't manage to graduate? Also why one of his brothers is a high school dropout and none of the others could make it into college. They are all video game, movie and media experts though.
Well, thankfully, my son saw right through this and told me about it. They were going to have a "talk" with him about college and career choices to encourage him not to go into engineering but to chose some humanities major like them. I guess engineering also stiffles people's creativity. I guess it makes sense that he doesn't want his brother-in-law to outshine him and his family. I had warned my son to not tell them what he made on the SAT, and sure enough, it was one of the things they were questioning him about. He didn't tell. He is dual-enrolling at the community college this summer and taking calculus with the score he made on the math section alone. I must be such a stiffling mother!

I feel for all the other grandparents who are going through this horrible experience. I didn't get to bond with out grandaughter properly either. We have had the opportunity to meet her and hold her, but the strain and minimal time spent together have prevented any real bonding. In a way it does make things easier, though we mourn the relationship we know we could have had and are very sad for her.

I pray for every one here, that someday we will have healing in these relationships and that God will give us wisdom to know how to handle each and every one of these situations.

Apr 14, 2013
I feel for you!
by: Anonymous


I wish I could say it gets better. You will have good days and not so good days. I think men handle it better than women. My husband says he just tries not to think about her. That doesn't seem to work for me.

I just found out that my daughter is on facebook. She has me blocked. Wonders never cease.

My youngest daughter sees her sister a little. She said the narcissist is acting weird. She was trying to put a name to his behavior. She said I think the word is politically correct. I said yeah well watch your back. He will be getting rid of you too but just hasn't found the way yet.

I know it is harder for grandparents that actually had a relationship with their grandkids and then lost them. That is so hard. I saw a picture of our grandchild and it is strange. She could be anyone's grandchild. We never saw her as a baby and she has just turned one year old. We are not bonded to the baby but that is sad in and of itself.

My husband and myself just pray that the blinders will come off and our daughter no longer be able to pretend his behavior is ok. I do feel eventually he will target our daughter. I think this type of individual is just plain evil. I miss my daughter who has changed completely. I am mourning for the daughter is once knew and lost. That helps put this in perspective. Oh, our daughter has not sent a friend request to both sides of her family. She has completely isolated herself. She has a few friends on facebook but only out of her husbands company. I found this info out through a friend being able to access her page for me.

Good for you that you are putting your foot down about your grandkids. It is sad that you have to resort to the courts and I pray that you will prevail.

Many hugs to you. I hope your daughter can see the light one day.


Apr 14, 2013
Me too!
by: YG

I'm in the same boat, was really close to my lovely daughter and my wonderful grandchildren. I now haven't seen them all for 5months! I'm going to court in 2 weeks for visitation rights for my GC.
The older one is not even his, I had such a close bond with her, I was at her birth, my daughter and the baby lived with me until she got with the narcissist.
My daughters personality has changed too, I just cant believe she is allowing this to happen and I now think I've lost her. I am so sad every day and miss them so much. I pray every day that they will split-up, as I think this will be the only way I will see my daughter again.

Apr 02, 2013
Throwing rocks!
by: Anonymous

I am so glad that you did talk to your daughter before your son-in-law can severe the relationship.
I wish I could have done as much but hind sight is 20/20 and I don't think I would have had nothing but resistance.

I agree that your daughter probably reported everything said to her to her husband. Our daughter did that and the son-in-law said they don't keep anything from each other. I think it is that way the narcissist can control everything.

I am also interested in why they wanted to get to your son while alone? You really came through for him and protected him. How heartbreaking this situation is for you that you have to protect your kids from this man. What amazes me is that they were throwing rocks at your windows without a care that they could cause damage.

I am so glad your son did not open the door.


Apr 02, 2013
Follow-up & Thanks
by: Anonymous

I echo the previous poster - I am so thankful for the support offered on this site.

What happened yesterday with my daughter/SIL staying here on vacation is more of the same old story, except that we did sit down and talk to our daughter and explained that we are under a lot of strain because of her husband's behavior. She is in denial, but we thought it was important that we have this conversation with her because we are looking at the future and what seems inevitable. He will turn on her, eventually. When the time comes for her to open her eyes, we want her to remember that we weren't fooled and she is not alone. That was the goal. Of course, we encountered all kinds of resistance and she tried to fight back. There was some of the same disrespect at that time. We expected it, but it still hurts, especially coming from her. Still, I think it was necessary. We didn't bring up but a couple of incidents, because the goal was to make her aware that we know what is going on. We told her that we see many things and we are very concerned for her, and that she should expect that since I am a protective mother, I will not be letting her younger siblings out of my sight when they are around. I don't know if that registered with her, and I don't know what the fallout will be from that one, whether he will back off and move on to other potential supply sources? Or, whether he will redouble his efforts. We expect that most of what was said has been repeated, and we haven't seen him since she had time alone with him, so we will see...

One of the incidents we discussed was what happened this weekend at the home of our friends where our son was "housesitting" (hiding). On Friday night, she and her husband decided to there to see him. I said nothing, as I knew it would make no difference, but I called my son and warned him. He didn't open the door. They proceeded to walk around the house looking into every window. Thankfully, there was an upstairs... They also threw stones at the windows upstairs... I told my friend about this, and she will be checking the windows for cracks. I don't think they suspect that each of those windows is worth $2500 as they are hurricane proof. Well, as if all that wasn't enough, they accosted our son on Sunday demanding an explanation as to why he didn't open the door or answer the phone. It was so intense, that I had to step in and say that he wasn't there to receive visitors and had been told not to open the door for anyone. Knowing that he would be coming home in a couple of days, one has to wonder why the urgency and why the anger at not being allowed in that house. My friend had explicitly asked that my SIL not be allowed in her house.

Apr 01, 2013
Jade this forum does help
by: Anonymous

It never ceases to amaze me how similar our stories are. Narccistic individuals are.

I cannot say this forum can give the solution to this type of person. Hopefully it can. What it will do is show that you are not alone and you are not crazy. You will get comfort from othet people that have gone through the same thing. We all can share and be there for each other. I cannot say enough how this forum helps me.




Apr 01, 2013
Evil is the perfect discription
by: Anonymous

I am so sorry for you. Do you mind sharing exactly what he did? You seemed to have had a good handle on it at the time but you had just started into this terrible visit with someone who is EVIL and knows how to cause division. The fact that he schemed and plotted what he was going to do was spot on I am sorry to say.

I am hoping you have not lost contact with your daughter and grandchild. It is impossible to be in the same room with evil. What was strange about our daughter was the change. She seemed to approve his hateful behavior. It may be true that you become like the people you hang around.

The only upside to this is that if you never see them again you won't have to deal with him.

I say a prayer every night that God will germinate a seed of doubt in my daughter's mind because I think this is the only way you and your husband will see her again. When SHE can no longer accept the way he treats people and that she will miss her family in time and wonder why it is o'k with him for her to not have any contact. As my DH and I believe our daughter will have to divorce him and we figure it will take a decade.

How can a husband do this to his own wife and be a nice person? Nice they are not. Downright mean and sadistic.

It does not surprise me that he is a church goer. Some of the most evil and sadistic people use the church as a cover so they can appear good to society and the people in their circle.

Have you ever read the book "People of the Lie"? That is a book of stories of the most evil people and their impact on the families they are a part of. I believe the narcissist is one of these people. There is also a book I bought about narcissism and the first thing it says is how sorry they are that you have a person like this in your life for you would not be purchasing the book unless you were. Another good book is "How to deal with toxic people". This book is a good book and shows how the people involved dealt with the person that was making their life miserable.

I know you are heartbroken. I wanted to share that it does get better in time. Always remember that you are not alone and there is nothing you could do. This is the time to say the Serenity Prayer. I say it every day when I digress and go back in the past to see if I could have done anything different.

I hope your husband did not let this monster get away with too much cruelty.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Apr 01, 2013
Follow-up
by: Anonymous

This thread seems like the same story coming from different families at different stages.

I posted earlier about my daughter's family visiting and spending 10 days at our house. They are here. It's a disaster.

I have little hope that we will not end up where the original poster is - a broken relationship with no contact, being cut off from our granduaghter in the process.

I am heartbroken.

I wish I could say that we have found a way to keep this creep from poisoning our daughter against us. Nope! We are dealing with an evil, evil person, and a wolf in sheep's clothing to boot. The guy even works at a well-known national ministry writing "Christian" worldview columns, book reviews... I could scream just thinking that people donate their hard-earned money to these people. So,it is hard to convince our daughter that what we have to say is of any value if it disagrees with his wise counsel - he gets paid for his "valuable opinions".

Apr 01, 2013
A controlling Son-In-Law...
by: Jade ThompsonAnonymous

I desperately feel for you....it was like reading about my own life.
I also have a "control freak" Son-in Law. I figured he had Narcissistic traits just over 6 years ago. I did not know what a narcissist was until I did some research on the subject.
He has been with our daughter for almost 7 years.
He has bought nothing but trouble and misery to our family.
He refuses to participate in happy family events. He stops our daughter from seeing us (when it suits him).
We have tried in vain to get along with him. He refuses to have anything to do with her family.
We now have a grandchild....and there are early signs that he will destroy our interaction with her....no reason...just because he can.
I have been at my wits end for a number of years now. I have also suffered terrible depression because of the monster.
It is difficult to know where to turn.
I found this forum by mistake.....I am hoping as well to find answers to this never ending emotional and mental abuse that this creep keeps spewing out our way. He is an evil and insidious individual.

Mar 21, 2013
PS
by: Anonymous

I managed to get our 8 year old out of the way last night, as it was one of my goals. But he substituted her with our 11 year old as quick as lightning... It's mind boggling how good these people are at mainting their "supply." I will focus on keeping both girls occupied! It's very hard to keep all your bases covered. So, I expect he will win some battles, but hopefully not the war!

I am praying that you have a chance in the future to get your daughter's heart back. One of these days her eyes may be opened, and she will realize what has happened. Hopefully sooner than later!

Thanks for the response, and I'll be back. :)

Mar 21, 2013
Good for you!
by: Anonymous

My DH and myself laughed our heads off reading your post. Mentally ill he is. That really puts it all in perspective doesn't it?

I know that cult of one has been plotting and planning how rude and disrespectful he was going to be to your family
Boy has he been thrown into a tailspin! I am loving it!
Still be careful and hopefully your daughter will start to notice and question how rude to her family he is being.

I wish I could go back in time and change the mistakes I made but seeing how disarming him is working for you just may keep him from stealing your relationship with your daughter.

My nickname for my son-in-law is "Alan Almighty"!
Keep up the good work and keep avoiding the land mines your walking through.

What about your 8 year old? You didn't mention her? Keep updating. Don't let your guard down.

Mar 21, 2013
Good for you!
by: Anonymous

My DH and myself laughed our heads off reading your post. Mentally ill he is. That really puts it all in perspective doesn't it?

I know that cult of one has been plotting and planning how rude and disrespectful he was going to be to your family
Boy has he been thrown into a tailspin! I am loving it!
Still be careful and hopefully your daughter will start to notice and question how rude to her family he is being.

I wish I could go back in time and change the mistakes I made but seeing how disarming him is working for you just may keep him from stealing your relationship with your daughter.

My nickname for my son-in-law is "Alan Almighty"!
Keep up the good work and keep avoiding the land mines your walking through.

What about your 8 year old? You didn't mention her? Keep updating. Don't let your guard down.

Mar 21, 2013
Update on daughter's visit
by: Anonymous

I am so thankful for this website! As I've posted here before, my daughter and SIL are in town. They were here last night. I am sure it went better for me because the way I am perceiving the situation has changed so much. I am now 100% convinced that he is mentally ill and a narcissist. It has made a difference. I no longer try to talk to him like he is normal.

He tried all his usual tactics last night. It's amazing! He made fun of my daughter and the food choices she has made for their baby. Daughter #2 made the mistake of agreeing with him about his dislike of that food, and she became his best friend (supply), she got his admiration, if only for that moment. She thought this was great, as he has been very nasty to her in the past. He is so divisive... When he wasn't the center of attention, leading the conversation with his usual lecture on a given subject, he totally ignored every single one of us, being the intellectual that he is (NOT), he had his nose in a book, which he made sure to attempt to give us a lecture on before the night was out. As soon as that started, I left the room.

He tried to interrupt several conversations I was having with my daughter to draw the subject to himself. It was so obvious! The guy can't stand to not be the center of attention for one minute. I kept talking like I didn't hear him, like this is the crazy uncle every family has...

He tried to offend me by, out of the blue, saying that our dog was "really dirty." To which I replied, with a smile on my face, that he is right, since the dog does get to go outside every day and doesn't wear shoes or anything else. This caught him by surprise, and he was somewhat disarmed, as he expected this would open up an argument. The best part of this was that my son (15) took notice of my new approach and managed to pull off something similar a few minutes later, when he got his dosage of a put down.
What a jerk!

One of our friends in the know is going on a trip and has left us her house keys as an escape to a place of refuge. She has offered to let our son go there to get away, spend the night... with the excuse that he is house sitting, at any point during this visit. What a relief that is!

I suspect his anger towards me must be through the roof at this point. I anticipate he will be attacking me with a vengeance very soon. I've said before here, that I think it's important to have allies (friends) who are on board with what is happening. Here's the biggest reason why, they are PRAYING for us. We need those prayers!
All this in one night.

So, that is my update for now...

Mar 17, 2013
Thank you!
by: M

Thank you for the suggestions, this is so helpful! I will spend some time this afternoon making plans.

I saw my son (15) writing on his computer on a document he calls "Operation Shield." I thought it was funny that he picked that name. He said it is his list of things to do while "the jerk" is staying with us, to "try to avoid being attacked." It's funny he came up with that name for his list, but it is also tragic at the same time.

I will let you know how it goes...

Mar 17, 2013
This is what I would do.....
by: Anonymous

I cannot imagine having to cope with my son-in-law for 10 days. I am interested in how that turns out for you later.
Yes, I believe your youngest daughter is his supply but I would see to it that not much contact with her happens. Keep her busy visiting friends but don't let her hang around much with him without you present. How would you handle a your child being around someone that is a pedophile or has a criminal record? You would not let her be alone would you? Keep her busy and passing through to say hello. Invite a friend of your daughter over so "he" won't be her focus. He may suspect something but have no proof that you are limiting his time with her. Treat him like the Aids virus he is. Limit contact.

Looking back at something that happened after dinner at their home, we were having coffee. My daughter says to her husband sitting across from me, "you know the sausage/cheese balls you love so much?" He looks at her and says yes. She says "that is mom's recipe". He says "Oh really?" He then stands up and leans across the table and gets in my face and gives me a hateful nasty look and then turns his face away like I am dismissed. He loves to dismiss people. I looked at my daughter shocked to see her reaction and she was staring down at the table with a smile on her face. She saw it alright! The moment passed and I said nothing. One thing for sure is my husband was not present. I believe this type of person is a coward underneath it all. He didn't target my husband just me.

Thinking that his goal is to end relationships, I would watch my back for those ten days. Don't get caught alone with him either. Make sure your husband is with you at all times. Steer clear of any conversation that could get him started. If he acts like a jerk, pretend it doesn't bother you or you didn't get it? LOL!!! That would get him for sure.:) I wish I had done that now instead of confronting him which is what he wanted all along.

After he has left go take a hot shower and have a glass of wine if you like and say a prayer you survived being around him.

Also,love on your daughter a lot while she is there. Thinking about the daughter I have lost touch with I wish I had poured on the love in spite of her behavior and his. I have to think they put up with a lot of mental abuse and don't realize it.

I do feel that my son-in-law's mother is narcisstic. Why do I think this? At my daughter's wedding the mother of the groom came over to me and said; " I did good didn't I?" I said what??? confusion on my face. She gives a big grin and nods her head toward her son. If that isn't narcissism I don't know what is.

Hope this helps!

Mar 17, 2013
Coping
by: M

I understand the situation completely. Ours is very similar. My SIL's side of the family doesn't talk to us. Their behavior is very strange to me, but having a son like that, I guess it's not surprising. I think his mother may also be one. Our daughter sides with him always, she doesn't want to betray him. Like you said, this is understandable, but very scary and hurtful. My SIL attacked me on Facebook, for hundreds of people to see, numerous times. He has also comes after my husband, oldest son, and younger daughter. The only one who doesn't seem to be on his hit list YET is our youngest daughter, who is 8. She adores him, so she is supply at this point. This is one of my questions. What does one do with a younger child who has such a Brother-in-law? I really need some more ideas on how to cope. At this point, I am trying to fill my calendar, so as to be out of the house to make sure we all get a break every day. I am going to be working to keep everyone busy... including myself.

Our SIL has tried (and succeeded) to discredit us with all the relatives he has access to. This has caused division in our family, and we feel we can't trust those people who've fallen for his charm and deception. Our holidays with family have become a real nightmare! That is why having a couple of friends that we can trust and have seen through the big farce is great. They don't fully understand like people here who have gone through this, but they are so important to us, as we have younger children. We can call and ask them to keep our other children at their house during times when we expect a blow up with SIL.
My daughter and he are flying in tomorrow. They will be staying with his family for the first 10 days, then with us for another 10. Since he "is indispensable" at his work, he'll be telecommuting while they are here. We are letting our daughter borrow our car with the rule that his is not to drive it, as he doesn't know how to drive a stick shift- that's the excuse. We want her to be able to get away... This is their first visit since they moved away, so we'll see how that goes.

Mar 17, 2013
Time is the healer
by: Anonymous

I don't think isolation is the right word. This forum eliminates that I believe. Who better to talk to than someone experiencing the same thing? I feel lack of communication with the people that got sucked into this situation by this man is causing me a lot of frustration. They just don't want to be caught in the middle. I can't say I blame them. I think I would feel so much better if I had my chance to explain and defend myself to them and give the actual facts of what he did to me would resolve some of the confusion from my family members. They really don't know what to say even if I did sit them down and explain the facts. I feel explaining what this man did to me would help me get over this situation.

My oldest daughter that is married to this man thinks I am lying. To question her husband would be considered a betrayal so I get that. However there was never a issue with my daughter just him. That is very hurtful in itself. She joined ranks with him and attacked me for defending myself against him. He took a closed communication between me and him by email and copied it to his people at work, my other daughter and his personal family. He was trying to ruin my reputation and character with people that I knew through this marriage and my youngest daughter. I have lost contact with his side of the family but that is not surprising. I wonder how they feel about the elephant in the room. If I were his parents I would know that if they crossed him in any way he would do the same to them. The company he owns with his employees and his immediate family are his narcissitic supply.

I am waiting for time healing the wounds.

Mar 16, 2013
Isolation is not healthy
by: Anonymous

Although I do understand that most people do not get this, some do. It is worth looking for those poeple who do. Their support is invaluable. I know we can't talk to most, but having two or three friends we can trust and confide in has made all the difference. So, I encourage you all to try to find those people.

Mar 16, 2013
I feel for you!
by: Anonymous

I love your "Cult of One" title to describe such a despicable person. I feel for you & understand how you feel.

There is still no word from our daughter. I am fearing we have lost her for good. I am grieving for the daughter I used to know. I don't know my daughter who has changed like yours did. What is the power a man like this can have over our daughter to change her personality? Maybe that is how they survive.

Our Grandchild will be a year old at the end of this month. I still can't believe this has happened. It is a nightmare I keep hoping I will wake up from.

I don't know what I would do if I had my son-in-law
stalking me. You are not alone and I thought I was going crazy. I can't talk about this to anyone. They just don't get it!

Mar 14, 2013
Daughter in a Cult of One
by: Anonymous

Our now estranged daughter has a serious incurable illness that she got six years ago. Due to this our brilliant young 20something career girl became someone who seems educable retarded.
I am afraid as I write this because her Cult of One boyfriend is vicious,violent and always gets his payback if anyone dares utter a word to anger him. He has stalked me at our home and online. Back to the story summary.
He is a malignant narcissist to the letter! The doctor I have had to go to in order to deal with the terror of this maniac told me today that the reason malignant man attacks me and not my husband is because he knows that I am like a terrier with a rat! When i asked for an explanation the doctor said: daughter's boyfriend can sense that I consider him a rat and that I am going to hold on until I can yank the rat out of our lives.
Wish I could really feel that way and do something like that but his constant barrage of attacks and stalking have reduced me to living in fear.
Our daughter is exactly the way others have described, now a stranger to us and happily abusive to us using behavior and language that are uncharacteristic. She only speaks to us when he close at hand to tell her what to say.
Now he is trying to get my parents and siblings involved. The two of them told us to go to hell ( putting it nicely compared to what was said). We have been out of touch for over a month BUT he neede his fix of anger and rage so now they are calling and emailing outrageous versions of reality.
This malignant narcissist is paranoid and sociopathic. Did time in jail/drug dealer but he has insisted that he is the nicest most loving person we will ever meet. Anytime he shouts obscenities in his violent rages it is due to some unusual circumstance. You see he has never done anything wrong and has been out here on earth to serve others.
I have to stop this is such a nightmare. Many,many thanks to all who took the time to share their stories. I truly felt alone and every time Idid an Internet search all I could find was narcissistic mother-in-laws. Give me a break! What about the wackos our daughters bring into our lives who gleefully destroy families forever. I am such a loss as to how to go on. There is absolutely nothing we can do. Thanks very much in advance to any who respond.
Trying To Survive

Mar 11, 2013
Heartbreaking Indeed
by: Anonymous

Wow, I am reading the post and comments, and this sounds so much like our situation! Our lovely daughter met this guy at a different church and a year later they were engaged and soon to be married. He is a charmer... and a deceiver. The rudeness and nastiness didn't begin until after the wedding, after he had her. That's when the super -controlling behavior took off. He has tried to drive our other three children away from us, but I saw what a smooth operator he was, so I nipped it in the bud from the start. It was bad enough that he had our daughter. Of course, this only made things worse for my husband and I. He now despises our son and me. I had a confrontation with him about two months ago, two weeks before they were to move to another state. He left town without a word to our family. Our daughter is still allowed to talk to us, and we've seen the baby - six months old. He decided to move as soon as he found out our daughter was pregnant. It's so sad. A narcissist son-in-law is a terrible thing to have. Our daughter always sides with him and has adopted his attitudes, beliefs, and rude manners. It is so shocking to see how these men dominate and control the women in their lives. I hardly know our daughter any more... We used to be so close. She would tell everyone that I was her best friend... Now, I don't know who she is when I talk to her on the phone. They are coming here for a 10 day vacation and will be staying with us. It's going to take a miracle for us to be able to handle this. I have been reading up on how to deal with a narcissistic person. One of the good pieces of advice I found was to not talk about anything controversial, keep the conversation superficial. It's very difficult, because they come after you and are verbally abusive.

I hope things improve for you somehow!

Mar 04, 2013
Father writes letter to daughter...
by: Anonymous

I guess it doesn't matter if they have money or not.
I can relate to you because I finally spoke up and confronted him we lost our daughter and grandchild.
My DH a few weeks ago sent a father/daughter letter to their home. We should have sent it registered mail return receipt requested. She has never mentioned having received it to her sister. In this letter it was also telling her that we loved her and have not abandoned her. There is minimal contact with her sister. If we hear anything it is through her. I am glad he is out of our life. He is sadistic, selfish, cruel. He got what he wanted and I feel I fell into his hands but it was good speaking up for myself. We love our daughter but she has changed too. I am disappointed that she gave her silent approval to his mean behavior toward me. I am convinced nothing is going to change. I went on utube and saw a cartoon about narcissitic behavior and if you cross them they will not bend or work things out.
I agree with you that he has not figured out to completely end the relationship. I told our other daughter who just got engaged to watch her back. He has not figured out to get rid of you either but he will in time. I told her if he starts giving you nasty looks call him down on it in front of her sister. I wish I had. I let the ball drop too long until I could not take it anymore. When my own daughter jumped on board with this behavior I just could not take it anymore. I don't know if my daughter and her narcissitic husband will come to her sister's wedding but won't be surprised if they don't.
They did not show up to any get family get together's this past year. In the letter my husband wrote to our daughter he said we are not going to put up with hostaging. He feels that is what they are doing not letting us see our daughter. All I can say is watch your bad. They are cunning and strategic and it's scary.

Mar 04, 2013
This Is ME!!
by: Anonymous

This could've been my story except my son in law isn't wealthy but his family is. Our daughter a "sweetheart" has convinced our son to not speak to me as well. They insult their dad (my husband) alot but he manages to ignore it whereas I have a tendency to speak out and I'm very glad that I have. I did play into my son in law's hands as well but I don't regret it. It's frustrating at times but I'm still glad I spoke up.

We do get to see our only grandson occasionally and I'm glad for that but I expect my son in law to do something about that eventually.

He tried to get on at our local police department but failed the drug test twice and because I have connections to the pd, though not an officer, he blames me.

His 36 year old half brother lives at home with his parents. He is a convicted felon, having served time for child abuse. He's a drug dealer/trafficker and has a very lengthy rap sheet going back 12 years. His mother lied to my daughter about this and when I questioned my daughter about it her excuse is that she trusts her in laws to protect her son against this
monster.

It's a crazy situation and frustrating as well but there's nothing I can do.

This man has her convinced she has no one to turn to so I have made sure she understands if she ever needs help I'm a phone call away. This way he hasn't completely won.

Feb 02, 2013
Update on narcissistic son-in-law
by: Anonymous

It sounds like you at least have a relationship with your daughter and Grandkids. I think he has not figured out how to get rid of you yet. So I am happy for you that you have not lost all contact. You are wise in thinking he could pick up and take off. Watch your back.

Update- We have lost all contact except for a Christmas postcard with a family picture of them and the baby. It was addressed only to my husband. Everyone else got a generic letter about their life for the last year. My husband got nothing.
This is what happens when you confront a narccisstic personality. In getting the card, the message is "Look at the Grandchild you will never know.

Being treated as invisible still was so upsetting to me that my husband sat down & wrote a letter to our daughter. We have heard nothing.

In this letter my husband tells my daughter that we did not raise her to act that way and there is no motivation for me to lie about it. He writes we will not be a party to hostaging.
He told her we love her and have not abandoned her.

The rest of the family now sees what he is like. Still we don't know when we will ever see our daughter again.

Feb 01, 2013
Narcissitic son-in-law
by:

My heart goes out to you. Twenty years ago, our lovely daughter began seeing "Nabal". He showed up at our church one Sunday and he immediately began to weave his magic on our daughter, who was the church pianist. Nabal was full of himself, cunning, charming, manipulative, etc.
Over time, he even succeeded in driving a wedge between our daughter and the elder Pastor. She eventually left the church and married this person. They moved just far enough away that he could monitor and control any contact with family or friends. This continued for over ten years.
There were many nights, I cried myself to sleep. 13 years after they were married my daughter finally became pregnant, but she lost the baby during the pregnancy. She was heartbroken. Then several years ago, Nabal accidently hit a man walking along the highway with a company vehicle. Nabal left the scene of the accident. The man died and later Nabal lost his job. Now he has high blood pressure, arthritis, stomach problems, hernias, sinus infections, obesity, etc. Nabal is still arrogant and manipulative. And of course our daughter is still married to him and she defends him at every turn.
God's goodness shines in spite of this sad, sorry, story. Our daughter was finally blessed with two beautiful children. I retired and I have kept the children so she could work to support his habits. This suits Nabal since my services are free and he has more money for whatever.
I know that at any time, he may run with the children as he did with our daughter. But, everyday with the children is a gift from God.




Nov 18, 2012
Update on Narccissitic son-in-law
by: Anonymous

This is the follow up to my first post. We have not seen our daughter and we don't know what the baby looks like. My narccissitic son-in-law did target only me. When I stood up for myself, this is what he wanted and ending the relationship with me and now my husband. The baby was born last March and they took a private room and lied and told everyone they could not have visitors. Not even her sister was allowed up there. My son-in-law's 10 year old son from a previous marriage was brought to the hospital and was allowed to see the baby but NOONE on both sides of the family were allowed to the hospital. We just found out that they will not be attending Thanksgiving so that will mean that no one will see the baby. Probably this will be the last contact from my daughter and husband. They live a isolated life and don't have much to do with either side I hear from my daughter who has a minimum amount of contact with her. I guess my son-in-law's side of the family know by now that if they offend both of them in any way that they won't see the baby too. My daughter does not do facebook. She is controlled completely by him and is changed completely. I don't believe her father and me will ever see her again. I have moved on to acceptance now. Boy the anger was hard to deal with but things are better now. We focus on our daughter who is in our life. We may be relocating to another state and I never thought I would be so happy to go. Things do get better over time.

May 07, 2012
Narcissistic son-in-law - no baby or daughter as feared!
by: Anonymous

Thank you so much for your comment. It gave me chills! It also validated our experience so thank you again. Yes all rude comments and passive aggressive behavior were targeted at me only. As we feared we were not contacted when the baby was born. My husband was sent a short text with a picture of my daughter holding the baby in recovery room. It was clear my husband was to be allowed to be a Grandparent but not I. A email was sent expressing this intent. Hurt I responded. I said my husband and I are married and a package deal. He replies no deal. I feel your pain as you held your Grandchild. We have no pictures other than a text picture. They rented a private room at the hospital and lied and told family they could not accept visitors.
How creepy! Absolute control and isolation. How messed up!
I share your pain. I also felt I was going crazy. He copied our private correspondence and made it public with his friends and company. He is the owner. He is trying to attack my character and reputation. The favorite saying that stands out from both of them is " Nothing has been done to you...EVER!!!!!". What a lie.

May 07, 2012
Not alone
by: Anonymous

I can't believe that I am reading this. It's like reading an act verbatim from my life with our daughter and narcissistic son-in-law. Exactly! You wouldn't believe some of the comments from him...and he rarely targets my husband. Our daughter, who we used to be so very close to, has changed and taken on his warped realities. They had a baby and won't let anyone in the family see this precious little boy. My husband and I have been to counseling, read books, written amends letters to them, all to no avail. He is manipulative, self-absorbed and never accepts blame or accountability. It has been two years since we have seen our daughter and have only seen our grandson on the day of his birth. By the way, the parents of this young man (30) are just like him. They took our daughter and ran.

It's good to know that we are not alone. I thought we were going crazy. It's been a very difficult time.
G.G.

Click here to add your own comments

Join in and write your own page! It's easy to do. How? Simply click here to return to Your Narcissistic Injury Horror Stories or
How You Done Him Wrong
.