Narcissitic son-in-law and I had words and I have lost a lot from it

by Scarlett Jones
(USA)

My daughter in her twenties started work as a receptionist for this narcissistic man who was president of his company.

His present wife in her 40's was his business partner. This man started emailing my daughter privately in the office and slowly started complaining how horrible his wife is and how she does nothing but spend his money.

Long story short he replaced his wife/business partner with my daughter.

My daughter felt he was the perfect man and had a worship at his alter attitude. He is a millionaire.

She used to be very close to her family. We noticed if she came for a visit he would always call into the house and pull her away from us. This never stopped. Overtime he started eroding away our relationship with our daughter.

He started a series of put downs and demeaning and disrespectful behavior towards me and her dad.

She started changing and turned her head away toward the rude behavior directed towards her parents and sister.

Finally there was a confrontation with me and this narcissistic son-in-law about his rude behavior towards me. I told him off. What I thought was a private conversation was not. I played into his hands.

He called me from his cell phone and camped the call into the speakers of his car. My daughter heard the exchange.

She calls me and tells me he never has done anything to me and told me to stay away. I played right into his hands.

My husband tried to privately convince this man to call me to work the issue out and he said I don't feel compelled. He never called me.

Now we have no relationship with our daughter. He has forced her to choose. She is now pregnant and we won't have a relationship with her or the baby.

I am heart broken but still am glad I no longer have to deal with this evil man. He gives me the creeps.

It has no occurred to me that he cares nothing about what he is doing to our daughter. He lacks no empathy at all for anyone and I hate that this type of foul individual entered our life.

We expect one day he will have another affair and toss our daughter aside like she is nothing.

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Oct 14, 2014
Amazing!!!
by: Scarlett

i am shocked Nosmiles that your son has been as upset as our daughter has been with us. Several times our youngest daughter (31) who just got married has confronted my husband and myself about this situation like we have control over what this narc is doing. I agree that to apologize for a situation we have not caused would escalate the treatment, I would call it emotional abuse, and convince the narc that he is
justified in treating us this way.

Even though our daughter is married now and the wedding is over (thank God) I sense a distance or wall towards us. She feels caught in the middle and any effort to talk to her is futile because she wants to not choose sides. I understand why.

I applaud you for going on vacation and not letting this situation affect reaching out for the good times in your life. Your a very strong woman!

Oct 14, 2014
The comfort and support is priceless....
by: Nosmiles

and far out weighs the sadness that I some times feel when I read about how others are suffering.

Thank you YG and Scarlett. I'm so pleased I came on here again today and read your lovely messages. I am enjoying my holiday, our place here in Florida is my little oasis in the desert that's become my life. You summed it up so well YG on the other forum that we use when you said that after 2 years the initial shock and trauma has past and now there is this over whelming sorrow that seems to engulf every aspect of our lives.

We have another son Scarlett, 20 months older than his brother who is currently living in Aus. He has been very angry and at time hostile towards us over the last 18 months. My heart breaks for him as it must be terrible to see what's happened to his once close and loving family.

He simply cannot believe that we could be treated this way if we've done nothing wrong, so doesn't always believe us when we deny the false accusations that have been made.

He thinks we are stubborn, bearing a grudge and that is why we have never apologised for the things we've been accused of. He doesn't understand, or refuses to see what's really going on.

He once told us that our love for his brother should be unconditional; I told him it is, but unconditional love is to continue loving some one in spite of how they may treat you. It is not a blank cheque, it does not give you the right to abuse your parents.

The last message we sent our son ended the way all of them have; we love him and are here for him if he ever needs or wants us.

You are right Scarlett, our children are adults, they have chosen to walk away and only they can decide whether or not they'll come back. I just hope for their sake and ours, that they don't wait too long.

Oct 13, 2014
I sure appreciate.....
by: Scarlet Jones

your input and that starting this page has been a place where you have received both warmth and understanding. I had worried so much that the previous exchange would end the conversations that have helped all of us for so long. I am so glad that it has not. So let us all continue and feel free to share our stories without prejudice.

I understand nosmiles how you feel about being around your narc and it inspires feelings that make you feel uncomfortable and don't even want to give a chance to where it could lead. I also am shocked at the depth of revulsion I feel for this individual. I also want to avoid any opportunity to test my sense of control. I had even thought about challenging my sil narc with a lie detector test but realize since he has no conscience that he would pass and I would probably look the villian.
My nerves would probably cause me to fail. lol

I was looking through all the wedding pictures taken back in the middle of August. Everyone knows for that day, I stayed in the moment and had a blast. Since then I wish I could say I don't ruminate and run the situation over in my head over and over again. There are good days and not so good days. As I was looking through a big family picture taken at the wedding, my estranged daughter had situated herself behind my husband and I. That made me so sad. I was surprised and we didn't at the time know she was there. I don't know how to interpret that. To have seen the way she treated my husband and myself as strangers all I can say she could win a academy award for her performance.

My husband and I were talking just yesterday and don't feel we will have any other occasion to see our estranged daughter. They avoid family get togethers, the exception being the wedding. We feel it is up to our daughter to indicate she wants her parents back in her life. I don't think she is strong enough and if she did it would come at a big price. Her marriage. I have had family try to encourage me to just show up at their home. He has a big security system with video monitors so I know he would not hesitate to call the police.

Nosmiles it almost seems like a tease that you receive hope only to have it snatched away. I feel so sorry that this happens to you. I wish we could get in the head of our adult kids and try figure out why this is ok with them and why they don't question their narcs tactics? I am clueless to understand it.

I was wondering if anyone else has grown adult children and how they feel about this type situation and whether they lost their relationship with their brother or sister over time? My youngest daughter sees her sister in detached settings and doesn't know our grandchild. They have ultimate control. So we realize we would not have been allowed to grandparent our grandchild anyway. My youngest said one time that I have not missed anything that
they have such a detached relationship that she considers her sister a blood relative now. So sad. Our newlywed daughter is trying to have a child and we will have a joyful occasion to look forward when that event happens.

I do see a glimmer of hope for you nosmiles that not everything is ok in this marriage and maybe one day it will be over for good.

Oct 13, 2014
Tears
by: YG

Hello Nosmile
Your post brought a tear to my eye, as your posts are apt to do. You should be enjoying your holiday in Florida & getting some happiness,not getting heartach on here, maybe have a rest from these forums till you get back home.

As for contact; I went round to my daughter's many many times, with presents, with books on this situation, I held my daughter's hand & told her I loved her, I love Laila & Jack, but to no avail. Two days after Mothering Sunday I went to the park adjacent to my Laila's play school, hoping my daughter's heart would have softened & she'd let me say hello to L&J & I could tell them I love & miss them. Instead the next day I had the police come to my house saying I had tried to kidnap my Laila, I had to give a statement saying that my daughter had dashed straight back into the school & my GC hadn't even seen me!

I was given a warning of an harresment notice & told by the police that I must make no more contact with my daughter, no phone calls, emails, txt or letters! When this all began, I tried to set up meetings, I went to mediation (they declined the invitation), I tried to get other family members to speak to my son-in-law, I tried everything, nothing worked! Nosmiles & I know a grandmother in this situation that was taken to the police station for leaving presents on the doorstep!

Oct 12, 2014
Hit a nerve for me too
by: Nosmiles

Being away on holiday at the moment, I've not been on here for a few days and have read with interest and sadness, in equal measure, the latest posts.

I found the post of the 8.10 rather upsetting as like Scarlett it hit a nerve. "as witnesses, without objection and intervention that we are participating in the abuse". I realise that the poster was verbalizing their own response to the nightmare of having a much loved child ensnared by a narc, but for us the objections and interventions simply made the situation worse, not just for our son, but for ourselves.

At the beginning of this year, our son left his narc wife. He emailed us, reaching out in the most heartbreaking message. We were there, within minutes of reading his email we were at the door of his temporary accommodation begging to be let it.

Less than a week later, he'd returned and the glimmer of light of reconciliation that burned so briefly was extinguished once more.

4 months ago, there only being his car at the house we were concerned that things were once again going badly so we went to the house, thinking he was alone. The door slamming as we tried to talk to him on the door step told us she was home. The last thing he said to me as I was trying so hard not to cry and, literally reaching out to him with my open arms, summed up the situation exactly "we mustn't do this; it causes too much trouble".

Due to the terrible emails and notes our son's sent us over the last 18 months, we would have expected 'go away, I hate you, I wish you weren't my parents etc etc but no, it is she who hates us, not him, she who wishes we weren't his parents, not him.

The following morning we woke up to another hateful email which had been sent at 2.00am, he mentioned her by name 24 times!!

Our disengagement from our son, as Scarlett has said is not a position of neutrality. Having to walk away for the sake of our sanity and our marriage is the hardest thing we've ever had to do.

We know our son is living in an abusive relationship as is our only grand child. Like all abusers, she's alienated him from his family, he only has contact with his brother now, and that is becoming more and more infrequent, and any friends who may have shown only the smallest sign that they were not being completely fooled by her many faces, have also gone.

Words cannot describe the sheer rage I have for her, for what she's done and continues to do to my darling boy. I used to hope and pray that I'd come face to face with her but now I hope and pray that I don't. Were I to lose my composure I dread to think what could happen; what I could do and say.

We are not participating in the abuse there is simply nothing we can do to prevent it. Our son knows we are here for him, we've proved it for the first 27 years of his life he's known that to be the case, but as Scarlett said, our children are adults, they've made their choices how ever ill conceived they may be.

Our fragile hope is that the more isolated he becomes, the more chance there is of him seeing her for what she is, and leaving her for good.

You are so right Mother of stroke Victim, we all need warmth and understanding. God bless Scarlett for setting up this page because I believe we've all found those things here. It saddens me to know that you've decided not to post here any more. I wish you well and pray that you, your daughter and your entire family can find peace.

It's 2 years since we last saw our grandson. We are on holiday in Florida in our villa, where our son and his narc wife married. Every physical trace of that day has been discarded but I see, feel and hear my son here every minute of every day. 2 years down the road and today I feel as if all of my nerves are on the outside.

I understand anonymous poster of 8.10 that you didn't intend to imply that those of us who've made the terribly painful decision to cease objecting and intervening, are participating in the abuse of the children we love; sadly for some, that's how it came across. I hope that you too one day, will see an end to your nightmare.

All any of us can do for now is stay strong, and keep believing and reaching out to those who can truly understand; fellow victims.

Oct 09, 2014
Thank you YG
by: Scarlet Jones

I consider you one of the greatest responders on this page. One thing I need to clear up is this is a page I started three years ago and this is the first time I have felt a need to moderate a post. I am like a mother hen overseeing the feelings of others but realize now that just because this poster hit a nerve with me, doesn't mean others feel the same way.

I need to explain that this is not a forum. This is a open page that anyone including narcs can visit. There is no approval process to interact with others. So my inviting this poster to not share on this page is not possible. The poster is anonymous and even now can see these posts.

If the anonymous poster had explained her point of view and what she meant I would have apologized but she didn't. I also have a right to the way I feel about the post and still after reading it feel the same about it. If mother of stroke victim wants to support the poster by saying she is leaving then she can start her own page.
The irony is that this same poster can share anytime because they are anonymous after all.

I

Oct 09, 2014
Powerful
by: YG

I read all the latest posts with great interest, and it is good to hear all different takes on this impossible situation. I found the anon_refuse post powerful & interesting, this situation is like a maze, all different ways to turn but no way out! It would be a shame to leave this supportive post, so please don't. Scarlet is hurting & is sensitive, as we all are on here, let's listen & support everyone, that doesn't mean we have to agree with all that is said, but its good to hear another's point of view.
Love to you all & God bless xx

Oct 09, 2014
mother of stroke victim
by: Anonymous

I think that, perhaps this forum is not for me.
I have spent a lot of time understanding narcissistic personalities. I have grieved and
I am trying to put some meaning back into my life
And I try to project the best of me to everyone.
Basically, I have had enough stress in my life.
I need and seek warm, understanding people who
Are not judgemental.

Good luck on your journey

Oct 09, 2014
mother of stroke victim
by: Anonymous

I think that, perhaps this forum is not for me.
I have spent a lot of time understanding narcissistic personalities. I have grieved and
I am trying to put some meaning back into my life
And I try to project the best of me to everyone.
Basically, I have had enough stress in my life.
I need and seek warm, understanding people who
Are not judgemental.

Good luck on your journey

Oct 09, 2014
mother of stroke victim
by: Anonymous

I think that, perhaps this forum is not for me.
I have spent a lot of time understanding narcissistic personalities. I have grieved and
I am trying to put some meaning back into my life
And I try to project the best of me to everyone.
Basically, I have had enough stress in my life.
I need and seek warm, understanding people who
Are not judgemental.

Good luck on your journey

Oct 08, 2014
I disagree
by: Scarlet Jones

I regret causing distress to anyone because of the boundaries I set with this poster. Everyone misses their loved ones. Everyone handles this issue in their own way. If anyone has the solution please let me know.

Disengaging from a narc because of no control over the situation is very different from being "neutral " which implies indifference to the situation.

Suppliers are not the people on the outside of the narcs life that have been given their exit papers. The suppliers are the
people that live in the narcs circle feeding their God complex.

I do agree with the poster that if you see abuse either emotional or physical to report it. When your adult kid refuses to leave the narc there is nothing that can be done about it. They are adults after all.








So

Oct 08, 2014
mother of stroke victim
by: Anonymous

I re-read a lot of comments on this board.
It is sad that this mother, who takes the position
Of not supplying anything to her narc son in law
Felt that she had to leave. We are all hurting,
With good and bad days also. She was obviously
Hurting, too, or she would not have found this
Forum. I think she had an excellent understanding
Of a narcissist and suppliers. She did not seem to
Be attacking anyone or making anyone have to defend themselves.
Just feel sad that she did not get what she was
Looking to find.

Let's try not to take offense at someone who
May be looking to join others who are suffering
A narc.

Oct 08, 2014
Thank you for the invitation.
by: Anonymous

I reviewed my post and for the life of me, I don't know how my comments insulted you and invoked such a vitriolic response. Insult certainly was never intended. I was providing a different personal prospective in response to a Narc's abuse of loved ones other than to remain quiet and neutral. I apologize, for I did not know different perspectives are unwelcome. I will take you up on your invitation. Peace to all.

Oct 08, 2014
I agree
by: Scarlet Jones

Everyone should be able to share their point of view. The previous poster needs to understand that all of us are hurting and have both good days and not so good.

We should be able to share our experiences without blame. We are all here to offer support but should not be a place to feel you have to defend your position.


Oct 08, 2014
mother of stroke victim
by: Anonymous

these last 2 posts were interesting!
Two sides to the reaction of a child being married to a narcissist. I believe I have seen other parents who were
not seeing their child because of a narc son in law.

No one chooses this to happen. As for me, my daughter had a brainstem stroke, and I was kicked out, along with her sisters, brother, and several friends. I believe she is in total isolation now. I have fought legally, spent thousands, and the husband
always wins. I am going through therapy, taking meds for depression, and it seems as though the whole family is in disarray. I pray for my daughter and my grandchildren.

That being said, I really feel that no one wins with a narc. So, if you see your daughter or not, she is the one to choose
when to get out. I can see being adamant about not bowing down to the narc, just to see your daughter. Perhaps, she will
see the isolation that comes with being married to a narc.
Maybe, she won't. But, I believe this forum is for the dealings and stories that we have about narc Sons in Law.

We should all have our say, whether it is your way or someone else's way. There is always something to learn from another's experience. If your daughter knows, as mine did before the stroke, when she came to me telling me she wanted a divorce,
I gave her the same support that we would all give our daughters. She chose to stay, and had the stroke, in my opinion, due to his treatment of her.

Basically, you can do nothing at all to provoke a narc, but he will hurt you anyway.

Short of kidnapping your daughter and grandchildren, you will
end up with the same result with a narc son in law

I say-- Listen to any and all methods of dealing with this problem. There is no right or wrong way.

I have had to leave my daughter's and grandchildren's lives
up to God--- not because I wanted to, but because I was thrown out while trying to help her after the stroke. He will make sure I do not get back in. The same for siblings and her friends. She has aphasia, and cannot talk.

Please let all who are dealing with this situation come and be heard!!

Oct 08, 2014
mother of stroke victim
by: Anonymous

these last 2 posts were interesting!
Two sides to the reaction of a child being married to a narcissist. I believe I have seen other parents who were
not seeing their child because of a narc son in law.

No one chooses this to happen. As for me, my daughter had a brainstem stroke, and I was kicked out, along with her sisters, brother, and several friends. I believe she is in total isolation now. I have fought legally, spent thousands, and the husband
always wins. I am going through therapy, taking meds for depression, and it seems as though the whole family is in disarray. I pray for my daughter and my grandchildren.

That being said, I really feel that no one wins with a narc. So, if you see your daughter or not, she is the one to choose
when to get out. I can see being adamant about not bowing down to the narc, just to see your daughter. Perhaps, she will
see the isolation that comes with being married to a narc.
Maybe, she won't. But, I believe this forum is for the dealings and stories that we have about narc Sons in Law.

We should all have our say, whether it is your way or someone else's way. There is always something to learn from another's experience. If your daughter knows, as mine did before the stroke, when she came to me telling me she wanted a divorce,
I gave her the same support that we would all give our daughters. She chose to stay, and had the stroke, in my opinion, due to his treatment of her.

Basically, you can do nothing at all to provoke a narc, but he will hurt you anyway.

Short of kidnapping your daughter and grandchildren, you will
end up with the same result with a narc son in law

I say-- Listen to any and all methods of dealing with this problem. There is no right or wrong way.

I have had to leave my daughter's and grandchildren's lives
up to God--- not because I wanted to, but because I was thrown out while trying to help her after the stroke. He will make sure I do not get back in. The same for siblings and her friends. She has aphasia, and cannot talk.

Please let all who are dealing with this situation come and be heard!!

Oct 08, 2014
Wow!
by: Scarlet Jones

I refuse to feed into your insults to myself and everyone else on this board.

I would like to invite you to study up on narcissism and learn what a supplier is and who is the abuser with this type of personality disorder.

If that is all you have to offer on this page, I would like to invite you to never post here again.


Oct 08, 2014
Refuse to be one of his victims
by: Anonymous

I am thankful for this site. However, my husband and I are taking a different position that is often proposed by others. We refuse to be suppliers to our Narc SIL. We cannot stand by while he abuses her with passive aggressive conduct, the financial and social manipulations; the never ending criticisms; insults; demands and humiliation.

We feel, as witnesses, without objection and intervention that we are participating in the abuse. We kept still for years ( confused and uninformed about narcissistic personality disorder) and watched our joyful, youngest grandson withdraw and disappear into despair and depression before our eyes. This is a shame and regret that we will go to our graves with. He is now a freshman in college and our daughter is left to suffer the brunt on the Narc disorder on her own. However, she accepts,everything he provides to her in return for the daily abuse.He gives her everything because outward appearances mean much to him.

We cannot supply his narcissism because in return we would be supporting his abuse of our daughter. We can not remain quiet or neutral. We must object, we must condemn, we must not tolerate or we are as guilty of allowing the abuse as he is guilty of abusing. If our daughter wishes to continued to be abused in return for material awards, she is a self-realized partner in the abuse and shares in the responsibility of the consequences. We will not.

Our home is her home and it will always be opened to her. If she does not have an escape plan, we will provide her with one. Whatever financial resources we have are offered to her. If she wants to start a new life in Hawaii or Alaska, we will make it happen. But we will not stand by quietly in fear of that monster. We will not sing his praises, make him the center of attention and put up with sickening grandiosity and ritualistic mistreatment/abuse.

(BTW, restaurant waiting staff/servers are a prime target for him. It is a wonder none of them have ever poisoned him. But he justifies the abuse by telling everyone he is a big tipper. Now he has our daughter trained to place his demands upon the serving staff for him, like she is his paid Assistant and he's some celebrity. He never accepts anything at first serving..not even the water. If it comes with ice, our daughter has to request a glass of water without ice...and the glass itself has to meet his standards..tall glass if it short; short if it was served tall and God forbid PLASTIC..it never, never ends...bread with seeds must not have seeds..and he sits back with a smug smile enjoying the strife he is causing.)

The isolation from our daughter is depressing and heart breaking, but witnessing and allowing our daughter to be abused is immoral, corruptible and borders on criminal. She is a victim of psychological torture by a narcissistic psychopath.

If we wouldn't stand by and permit a person to abuse a puppy, why would we stand by and allow a man to abuse our daughter?

We will not be partners in his abuse. I will not go to my grave knowing I stood neutral and quietly during our daughter's suffering. It is unconscionable. I don't need to go to church to know the difference between right and wrong. My daughter lost her soul and self esteem to this demon, I don't have to join her to love her. I will not give him the power to make me a co-abuser nor be another one of his victims. I know he will attempt to inflict as much pain unto us as possible, but if he touches our grandsons or daughter, he will be the first narcissistic personality disordered psychopath who will be cured- permanently.

Oct 06, 2014
Stockholme syndrome
by: Nosmiles

It is so sad to welcome some one new because it's another family being ripped apart and destroyed by the manipulations of a narc; welcome.

All of our once sweet children are suffering from this syndrome. Like all victims of abusers they are gradually isolated from family and friends. The only friends they remain in contact with are the ones who have been successfully duped and so for the time being at least, are not regarded by these narcs as a threat.

We learned only recently that friends of our son's no longer see them, one couple hasn't seen them for 18 months now. Even one set of God parents to our dear grandson no longer seem to have any contact.

As you said Scarlett, their main aim is to hurt others and if we don't allow them to see how much pain we're in, we take away their sense of achievement.

Friends of ours see them walking around the village where we live and always comment on how miserable they both look, yet, when they walk past my mother's house they hold hands, laugh and smile and carry our grandson aloft. He's walking now and has been for some time but if they allow him to walk past he's hidden from view by the garden hedge. Much better to carry him so my mum can see her only great grandchild and be reminded of what's been taken away.

One of the chapters on this site is entitled 'winning the game' and it says that the only way to do so is to stop playing. It's so hard to make the decision to withdraw. We're left worrying about the kind of lives our children and grandchildren are living. How can we help them if there is no contact between us?

Our son has said terrible things to his father and written such awful emails that it is hard to believe they've come from him. In the last one about 3 months ago, he mentioned her by name 24 times!!

She's inside his head and has hardened and blackened his heart but for as long as we live, we'll always hope that one day he'll come back to us and that is something that she, and all of these narcs must live with everyday. You see, we are their parents, we have a history together. They had a life with us, in our son's case 27 years of not perfection, but 27 years of love, care and support. As long as we live, in her mind they'll always be the possibility how ever small, the he will want to come back.

Sometimes when I think about him I liken him in my mind to Darth Vada from 'Star Wars'. I wonder if there is still the tiniest bit of my darling boy left that can one day be re ignited and enable him to come home.

I saw this in a shop the other day 'Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain'. And we are learning to dance, all of us. We get wet, we stumble and some times we fall but when we do we have to get back up again, hold hands and support one another. No body wins, we've lost children and grandchildren, they've lost their parents and in some cases their entire families.

These narcs think they've won but have they. "What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his soul".

Oct 05, 2014
Thankful to have a place to go
by: Anonymous

So much is true. And I'm so thankful to have ya'll to turn to and understand. God Bless you all.

Oct 05, 2014
Thankful to have a place to go
by: Anonymous

So much is true. And I'm so thankful to have ya'll to turn to and understand. God Bless you all.

Oct 05, 2014
Narc victim/Stockholm Syndrome
by: Anonymous

We have very similar circumstances. I suspect our daughter is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, bonding with her abuser. Though she is intelligent, he has trapped her in a life where he gives her everything but she is completely reliant of him for everything. She is trapped. He is the trapper/abuser. She is a supplier. We refused to be demeaned and disrespected. We do not feed him the praise and adulation he requires. He set me up. I snapped. In her mind, he is being victimized and unjustly discredited by us. Now he is able to further isolate her. I wish we could grab her, take her far away and have her DE-programmed. At this time, she is calling us, telling us we are wrong, he is justified and we must apologize. Her thinking is so erratic. She is even beginning to sound like him. Our hearts are broken. We are so depressed and upset. I am thinking we should seek professional counseling for guidance.

Oct 04, 2014
Scarlet's post
by: YG

Well said Scarlet! xx

Oct 03, 2014
I agree with YG
by: Scarlet

To buy some time as we know what the goal of your narc is:

Never give your opinion and stay neutral. Never be caught
alone with him. If he gives you evil looks and says something particularly nasty, give him your best "I am not getting your meaning look." This requires a poker face and not reacting with a smile as you notice his look of disappointment. Don't ever notice his lack of respect.

The most important thing to realize is it's like a game of chess. Narcs love to inflict pain so when you deny him your reaction to what he does, that it may reduce his behavior.

If you scroll down you can read about how it turned out seeing my daughter and narc at the wedding. I have been looking over the wedding pictures and see the narc looking at me with malice. I laugh at his hatred of me. I see right thru him. He was like a roach slithering around eating our food. He turned my husbands family against me and my two sisters were caught fraternizing privately with him out on the veranda of the venue. Narcs have a gift in turning everyone against their target. I am prepared to lose all my family which is the worse case senario. Being true to yourself is paramount. Be strong!


Oct 03, 2014
Good morning
by: YG

Hello new anon
Sorry to hear about your sad situation. My advise is to stay quiet, if you don't agree with anything he says again stay quiet, it will be hard if he is being horrid to you or your daughter & grandchild, but if you don't, you will surely be cut out of their lives forever, the same as I & others on here.
Stay strong & God bless x

Oct 02, 2014
I understand what you are saying..........
by: Scarlet Jones

Narcs seem to have the same sadistic manual they learn their tactics from to hurt their victims. Their goal is to always control and divide families.

I also understand the hatred you feel. That is a normal way to act when you are the target for cruel treatment. One of the last things I said to my sil narc is "Your rude, crude and disrespectful." It felt so good defending myself as I had taken his mistreatment for two years before confronting him. That resulted in the loss of my daughter and not ever getting to know my GC. I will have to say given the choice to go back to the way things were is not a option
things got that bad at the time.

So don't allow that sicko to make you depressed. .
These people have something serious wrong with them. Be kind to yourself and realize you are not alone with this problem.

Oct 02, 2014
Thank you Scarlett
by: Anonymous

I have been going through a horrible time myself. I am a single mom with 2 adult children. My daughter has been married to a narcissistic man for 11 years. I have 2 grandsons age 10 and 4. Any time I disagree with something my SIL says or does, I don't see my daughter or my grandsons for a long time. He keeps them from me just because I disagree with him. He is verbally abusive to my daughter and my grandsons and has no respect for me. He treats me like I'm a child most of the time. I hate him and I've never hated anyone in my life. I just don't know what to do. The problem is that my daughter doesn't agree with what he does but she does agree with him (if that makes sense). She will never go against him even if it hurts me. I'm at a loss and have become severely depressed because of it and don't know what to do anymore. It just keeps getting worse and I'm sure that eventually it will get to the point where I never see my daughter or the grandsons again.

Sep 14, 2014
You're doing so well
by: Nosmiles

Dear Mother of stroke survivor I was so saddened to read your post. You sounded so positive yesterday and now sound so down.

I agree with every thing *YG* has said and want to add that you are one strong and amazing lady. To be able to cope with all of this and without the support of your husband is just incredible, it really is.

Today has not been good for you, but yesterday was and you will have other good days to come. Some times it's so difficult to get through the bad days but we all do, some how. When I have a bad day, just before I go to sleep I thank God that it's over and for getting me through it.

Stay strong.



Sep 14, 2014
Don't get depressed!
by: YG

Sorry to read your sad post Stroke D's mum.
My narc s.i.l has destroyed my whole,once loving & close family, setting brother against sister(ND),S against mother, D against mother, sister, grandfather..and on and on.. that's what narcs do, that's how they get their pleasure in life and mine is helped by his mother and they are not even blood related to my GD, just step-family!
But slowly all family members were kicked out & united again, apart from my S, but I did hear that they did have a falling out, but we (my ND & I) have yet to verify that.
So try not to get depressed, we are all here for you, understand your plight and are in the same sad boat, you just have to get through it as best you can, and I know that's easier said than done.
Goodluck xx


Sep 13, 2014
mother of stroke survivor
by: Anonymous

Well, yesterday was better, but today is worse.
I have read how some people on this post say how the narcissist SIL has gotten to other family members, saying bad things about you. Well, my ex husband, who knows the whole truth of how everyone in the family and many friends of my daughter"s have been kicked out of the house, invited my niece to his big house on the Chesapeake Bay, and my newly retired brother went as well.
The big report was how happy the grandkids are, how happy my daughter is, and my brother was told that I instituted legal
proceedings against him. I did, but the SIL had a suspect looking POA, signed over her half of the house to himself. I know he is waiting until her father dies, inherits the money left to my daughter, and then she will be destitute, and he can divorce her, and put her in a home on medicaid. This SIL had no money of his own before her father, my ex, started paying all bills for my daughter's therapy, and being emotionally blackmailed by SIL, who would kick him out too. Now SIL states he is worth 1.8 million, and he has never made more than $115, 000.00 per year before my daughter's stroke.
( This may sound like a big salary, but it is not because we live in one of the richest counties in the U.S., and it usually takes
at least two salaries to live here.) My daughter never worked,
stayed home with children, and her father more than made up
for her share of supporting the family. They lived extremely well, thanks to her father and all the money he gave them to
buy a big home and furnish it.
I had been served papers to stay away from the house a long time ago. My heart has been broken.THe SIL told my brother
while at the Bay House, that I had started a legal action against him for the shady POA. I wanted to get her half of the house back to her.
My 93 year old mother, who knew all the facts, is pretty close to death. My brother went home, and told my mother that Nicole seemed happy. So, my mother, who has dementia, is now mad at me. She is not making a lot of sense, and is angry at losing her independence, I wrote my brother to tell him about what really happened, but, I wish he had not told my mother. This is not a time for her to here conflicting stories.
My niece, thank God, posted on Facebook that "she was told"
that this was the happiest Nicole has been since the stroke.
That is the real truth, because SIL has taken away all her socialization. I am sure my ex told my niece that, but I am angry that my brother listened to the narc SIL. My brother questioned me in a rough way about why I don't just "suck it up", so I can have a relationship with my daughter and grandchildren? We have never had words before, and it hurt.
I told him that is not so easy, when you are kicked out.
Bottom line: it caused a lot of problems in my family. Another daughter thinks that because she was kicked out by SIL also, that now her uncle, my brother, does not like her either.
Don't know how much more I can take! My husband passed away when I was battling the SIL, My daughter has had a stroke that I do not feel she is recovering from, due to negativity in the home, and now my mother is dying. And the narc SIL keeps on causing problems. Had a blood test, and white cells are high. I read up on it, and ongoing stress can
be a cause. So depressed.

Sep 13, 2014
Ooops
by: Nosmiles

Silly me, the post yesterday which begins by thanking Scarlet for the book recommendation was from me - ooops. May be being anonymous to be grand son is affecting me in general!

It was good to read your post Mother of stroke survivor, I'm so pleased that you're feeling a little better and I'm sure that as time progresses you'll continue to do so.

I feel exactly the same no nasty, lying individual is going to get the better of me either.

Sep 12, 2014
mother of stroke survivor
by: Anonymous

I have been keeping up with all the comments here.

I, too, after much therapy have come to all the sad realizations
that have to happen. I do like the last comment about thinking they will come back to us later. We can only hope!
I feel the grandchildren, if they were old enough, as mine are, will remember all the good things about us. They will have questions later on, as narcissistic people do estrange their own children from them. That is when a lot of pieces may fall in. I cannot save my daughter. It kills me. But, my grandchildren told me enough when SIL was treating everyone, including my daughter, badly. a lot of things about their father. I have remained friends with all the girlfriends of my daughter that the SIL threw out. They support the kids as much as possible, as the grandchildren go to school with their children, and they tell me what they know.

Just reading my first lesson for my first ever Bible class, I am feeling better, not great, but better. I resisted ever going to one before, as I thought that it was just learning the history part of the Bible. But, I see, know, that it was so much more.

I did go for a wellness visit, and found out that my constant
stress may be showing up in my health. But, I have time to fix this. It is a big wake up call. We are programmed to go on.
And, it has to be with people that are healthy in their outlooks on life. I would not want to know that a very nasty, underhanded lying person ever got the best of me!

Sep 12, 2014
Thank you
by: Anonymous

Thank you for the book recommendation Scarlet; I'll be ordering it later.

I was particularly interested by the reference you made to a sermon about a chapter in our lives being closed but that's not say that they are gone for ever and will not return.

I've felt very strongly that God has been telling us we must wait because our s will get in touch with us but not for some time; years probably. The time has to be right for US, not our son. We'll have to be emotionally strong enough to make the decisions that will be right for US, not necessarily our son.

This was confirmed by my husband yesterday as a passage along these lines was his bible reading for the day. I feel it's been confirmed again by what's been posted here.

I must admit I've been finding the last week particularly difficult as it will be 2 years on the 30th September since we last had contact with our grand son.

That said, I never thought, when this first happened that I'd be able to come through it. I simply couldn't envisage my life with out the son I adored. But life goes on and you have to go along with it, or be left behind.

Sep 12, 2014
Double
by: YG

Morning Scarlet
Lovely double post from you and I will be purchasing the book,so thank you for that xx
Nosmile, good to read your post. I used to follow the reasoning that 'everything happens for a reason',but not anymore,not after my heart has been ripped out..for no reason!
I always think of Madeleine McCann and her mum...what reason there? No I don't believe that anymore.
Looking forward to reading the book x

Sep 11, 2014
Book recommendation
by: Scarlet

Hi All:
I wanted to recommend a book that I believe will help everyone to put things into some type of perspective. I realize all of us are at various levels of healing from the bad deck of card life has dealt us.

The book is titled "The Rules of Life" expanded edition by Richard Templar. I found it on Nook but feel you could find it on Amazon. This is a book that I plan to read everyday.

I don't know what happened to my other comment so I hope it doesn't show up with two posts about the same thing. Lol

This book has one rule that we all could learn from. It really helped me to put this in perspective.
It is rule #3 "Accept what Is Done is Done". None of us did this to ourselves. It was done to us. This chapter goes on to say that you can accept that you are a fabulous human being because of all the bad things that have happened to you, not in spite of them. Don't use labels "good and "bad".
Yes, I know some of it is indeed bad, but it is how we let it affect us that is the real "bad".
This little nugget out of this wonderful book. I believe every parent should have this book before they have children!

Another nugget this week was watching a old rerun of Oprah Show. She talks about making mistakes as we all do including her but she said something that I took to heart. Whatever has happened in your life, good or bad is not wasted but will bring something good into your life.

Another nugget was a post on Facebook about a sermon talking about people that leave your life.
It said to realize that their chapter in your life is over. It does not mean that they may not come back into your life, just let it go and pay attention to the good things in your life and the wonderful people that have not left us. How many of you can admit as I can that at times I get so caught up thinking about the situation that I am not in the present with my loved ones.

What is the reason we are all going through this? I would say simply bad things happen to good people.

What helps me and I would like to pass this along is allowing myself a short time to visit the situation. I acknowledge that it happened and there is not one thing I can do about it. I did not end the relationship with my GC they did.

I wrote a letter three years ago when I knew the writing was on the wall and said to my daughter and her narc. The first rule of good parenting is not to use your children as weapons.
It fell on deaf ears but we all know how narc's are.

It is sad that our GC do not have us for sure. We did not do this they did. I find that when I visit "that place" and think about all the things I am missing I feel depressed and remind myself that it is not anything that I can change. I then seek to distract myself.

We all believe each other, we all have compassion on each other and are there for each other. I personally wanted to share that all of you have shared something from your experience that has helped me and thanks!:)


Sep 11, 2014
The Rules of Life
by: Anonymous

This is a book that is a must read for all of us. It is called "The Rules of Life" Expanded Edition. I downloaded it into my Nook reader. It is written by Richard Templar. Rule #3 is to accept what Done is Done. The serenity prayer also addresses this as "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. Grasping that hope is half the journey.

This group is about all of us helping each other and reaching out a helping hand to each other when we all including me visit the past and find pain and heartache in doing so. This is a good day for me but I find I also still can have bad days. I am learning not to turn the pain inward and get depressed and when I get such sweet responses on this page it helps me so much as it does all of you when you post encouragement to others.

I find lately that when I pay attention to the things like what is my GC doing and what I am missing, that I am only hurting myself and I am in the process, and it is a process of learning not to look at or pay attention to thoughts such as those that only bring pain and frustration because there is nothing you or I can do about it.
There it is in a nutshell. So I am learning to distract myself when I go to that place and pay attention to those who do want to stay in my life. Those people deserve my full attention.:)

On Facebook someone posted a sermon that says that those that choose to leave your life to let them go. The bible talks about that too. Their chapter with you is over for now. That doesn't mean it will not open up again down the road, just to let it go, wish them well and welcome them back into your life with love and forgiveness when they choose to return. My DH and I have decided to back away and live our life and not let our estranged daughter and narc have power over us. We choose to be happy and will be happy.

We are all fabulous people and this hostage situation was not in our control and we did not do this to our grandchildren. The narc and their spouses have chosen the most selfish act they could ever commit on their children and that is to deny their child whom they say they love, the privilege of knowing their grandparents. I told my daughter and narc in a letter three years ago that the first order of being a good parent is not to use their child as a weapon. It didn't matter. Selfish people.

What is the reason for this? Bad things happen to good people is all I can say. I heard a quote on Oprah the other day. Everything that happens to you in life, the good AND the bad is not wasted. Good will come out of it in the end. I know this doesn't help some of you that are not in that place right now.

Still know that time really does heal all wounds and the sun will come out again.

Sep 10, 2014
But what is the reason?
by: Nosmiles

Haven't been on here for a few days and it's so nice to read the new posts, but hard to know so many suffer at the hands of their children's narc. partners.

I hope you daughter will keep you posted *Scarlet* and read to you any new posts until you've recovered from your op. I will keep you in my prayers that all goes well and you will soon be fully recovered.

You're right about how these narcs hate to be revealed and the mask slipping. Our d.i.l.'s mask fell off completely, twice in one day. First to my husband and then to me. I knew it was over bec. having shown herself in her true colours there was no way she would ever have any thing to do with us again.

She screamed and yelled at my DH when he went to their house and then she came down to ours. She was like a woman possessed; and at the height of her hysteria told me "you've done this to me, you've made me like this". I simply replied "No .... you've always been like this".

You are right *Anon.* to back off because you've 'Had enough'; it's the only thing to do. Our best course of action is to get on with our lives. Outward appearances can be deceptive and if to all in tense and purposes we appear to be managing without the children and grandchildren we've lost, that alone will infuriate these narcs. They hate to lose and will wonder if despite all of their efforts, they've really won at all.

It's frustrating not being able to go back to previous posts when you've started your own and I can't remember who said about our children being in these awful relationships, perhaps wishing they'd never got involved with their partners, wishing they could return to their families and desperately trying to 'fix' the person whose ensnared them, but who cannot be fixed. That really made me think. I'm so angry with my son, hurt and angry, that I don't think often enough, about how awful this must be for him.

I've too always believed *Freedoves* and *YG* that every thing happens for a reason, but what is the reason? What good can possibly come from any of these situations? Grand children being denied their grand parents; parents being denied their children and children denying themselves their own parents and in the majority of cases their entire blood family.

Because of his close proximity, I never know from one day to the next if I'll drive past my son, and I don't want too. I want him to move away so I don't see him. I couldn't go a school play and watch my dear grand son; it breaks my heart every time I catch a glimpse of him.

*Scarlet* you wondered if it was possible to de program our children and get these cruel people out of their thoughts. I wish I could be de programmed so that if I do see my son and grand child in passing that they are to me just a father and son, and not my son and grand child who are lost to me.

I've been really struggling recently like you *YG* but for different reasons. When I see children under the age of 2 I keep thinking that our gc isn't like that any more. Those 2 years have been stolen from us and they can never be given back. He'll be talking now and I don't know what his voice sounds like, I don't know how he sounds when he laughs.

I saw a friend with her 2 year old grand son yesterday and he looked up at her and said "granma". I thought my heart would break, again.

Sep 10, 2014
Echo
by: YG

Welcome new Anon to this saddest of clubs!
I echo all that scarlet has just said, we all definitely need our brain washed C debriefed from the years of turning our once loveing C into hostile ones! There is no reasoning with a NARC, no apology is every good enough and is never excepted, even with doing or saying nothing wrong, they are just hell bent in getting us out of our beloveds lives for good! Our only hope is if they move onto parstures new and dump our loved ones.

Sep 09, 2014
I understand
by: Scarlet

I can understand how you feel and why you have no choice to back away. I just had to reply in spite of vision issues. I read your story to my DH. We both agree that narcs are cruel heartless people.

I struggled with why my daughter turned her head away from the mean cruel things he would say and also saw him stare at me with hatred. I don't understand how these type of evil people change their partners but they do.

I personally feel underneath the exterior is a coward. He knows I see thru his mask to the person he really is.

My husband and I are respecting her wish to support her husband and really it does get better over time as you come to accept what you can't change. I hope he turns to greener pastures and dumps our daughter but think she may have changed in ways that might be alarming. I wish there was a debriefing process to undo the psychological damage.




Sep 09, 2014
Had enough
by: Anonymous

We are dealing with the same kind of son-in-law. He was seemingly nice when we first met, but it wasn't long before we saw things that scared us for our daughter and her little girl. He began making comments that if we couldn't get issues we disagreed on settle, he would hate to have to keep his children from seeing their grandparents. Before they were even married, he began influencing our daughter not to let us see our granddaughter. This has gone on now for 8 years and there is now another child and we are suddenly "unhealthy" to be around any of them. He has slowly but consistently and completely cut her off from her parents and there isn't much contact with her siblings because they haven't put any pressure on him to change his behavior. We don't know what to do except to back away and though it breaks our heart to do so, anything else gives him fuel for the fire, so to speak. She has no close friends and has also taken to sticking up for him and excusing his behavior and refuses to ask him to change it in any way. he can do what he wants, say what he wants, act anyway he wants and we are the ones who are in the wrong. They demand our respect and they demand apologies but when apologies have been given, we are told that they aren't genuine or sincere apologies. Nothing works! We have offered to meet with the and they refuse. I have met with my daughter and talked and she goes home to tell him what we talked about and the matter gets worse. We have no alternative except to back off and let her live in the situation although it's extremely painful to not be able to be a part of our grandchildren's lives!

Sep 09, 2014
I believe you
by: YG

I believe you Scarlet, as do all on here in the same sad boat. Sorry to hear about your sisters being swayed over to the dark side, I know how you feel as my Son was taken over by my narc s.i.l,& I had asked family members to help when this first happened, but no one did and now they are also 'cut out'.
As you say, it does get easier with time, but I feel I am now numb with the pain of 2years of separation. Everyone's talking about their GC starting school for the first time, all the photo's of their beloveds, but I'm ok because I am now numb!

Best of luck with your eye op & hope to hear from you again soon Scarlet. xx

footnote: previous should read precious on my last post, my new Hudl changes words of its own accord & I sometimes don't notice its done it:-#

Sep 08, 2014
I agree
by: Scarlet Jones

I do agree that in spite of anyone's belief system that no one deserves to be treated the way all of us have. We have all been betrayed also by our extended families that buy into the narc and his charming persona.

I still am grateful that I have come to a place that the pain of loss is very much better. Still I will always miss my daughter. I have come to acceptance now. It takes time but those of you who have gone through hell just know that "this too shall pass".

I am grateful for the kind words from all of you and interest in the much dreaded wedding.

I did see two of my sister's sitting on the veranda off in a isolated location talking to the narc. Here I am shaking my head. One of my sister sends me a picture of my estranged daughter and narc. What message would you receive from that? My interpretation is that "we don't believe you". So I got that confirmed by my dear mother that said a sister of mine gushed about how nice the narc is. Shaking my head again. I told my mom that my dear friend accidentally caught the narc staring at me with malice and hate in his face. His mask was off. I look at the picture and laugh at him now. I have proof now at how he would stare at me. My husband said he looks completely evil so I pray for my daughter. My friend also caught him drooling over the bridesmaids. They were all very pretty. We give it 5 years before he decides he deserves someone else and commits character assination and lies about her as he did his previous wife. We will be there for her with open arms.

We are all strong and I do believe that God is protecting me by my not being mistreated further.
That puts a whole different perspective on not seeing my daughter and GC for me.

I am having eye vision problems and going through surgery and may not be back online for awhile until my vision is better. You will hear from me as soon as I can see better. It is hard typing this right now.

I appreciate everyone that has given a lot of advice and encouragement to me and all of us have been there for each other. It is nice to hear the words "I believe you"!

Sep 05, 2014
Reason
by: YG

Hello freedove
I have been thinking the same thing re:'everything happens for a reason'
I won't be posting on FB , everyone's strongly advised me not to, it's not quite how it sounds,as I would be adding a forword to an already existing picture with quote.
As for going to a school play, I would find that too upsetting as my previous GC wouldn't know me now! I've asked my nice D not to show me anymore pictures of them it upsets me too much
As for my s.i.l going to church Anon,are you joking?

Sep 04, 2014
Public Events Ban
by: Freedoves

Hi all, I have been very moved and saddened by some of the new stories on here - why do we all have to suffer so? I'm sorry but I can't get a grip on this for anyone's sake, whatever your beliefs no one deserves this type of treatment. I have read somewhere that everything happens for a reason, well, if that is the case I am still to be shown what on earth the reason could be to hurt people who only wants to love and have involvement with their adult offspring and grandchildren - it's just downright cruelty to all concerned and can only be pure gain for the Narcs who rule us all, including our poor adult children wrapped up in a hell marriage with their Narc spouse - forever trying to fix somebody that can't be fixed. I'm sure our children also wish daily that their lives could return to normal, back to before they ever laid eyes on these evil people, and back to proper family relations....

Although, on a brighter note we are delighted to hear about Scarlett - you got through the wedding so well, with head held high - well done, you have received an inner strength and understanding over time, and realised that this madness and sadness cannot completely ruin all your life - just like we all are coming to the same conclusion.

I would like to add a point about being banned from public events. I cannot see the page at the moment whilst I am typing this, so I can't exactly make reference to the poster. However, we totally agree that no one should be able to stop anyone from going to a public event, like a school play etc (unless there has been an injunction of course!) However, in our case, we have been stopped through blackmail. We are told (emailed as everything has to be in writing so that Narc DiL can control our instructions) that if we go to certain events, without permission, then it is inferred that this will end with more family distance, and in turn more restrictions and conditions, so end result would be even less contact with our son and grandchild etc.

So of course if we ask permission to attend an event, then we are told no, with ridiculous reasons as to why and that we must respect 'their' wishes. No respect for us of course, oh no! There is NO winning, as is the usual result when dealing with a Narc.

So we are now in a dilemma because we can't right this and it is so wrong! Friends now say that her terms are ridiculous and unreasonable (as we all know) they think no one should be told where they can and can't go, and that we should go to certain public events that we know our son/granddaughter will be at irrespective of our orders, and that we must stop adhering to all the conditions. In a normal world yes - but we don't think they realise how much more we have to lose when this goes wrong. Firstly, we could just go and hide at the back but worry all night that if we are seen then we are going to be accused of going against their wishes, being disrespectful, underhand, blah blah. Or we say something first, ie ask permission, only to be told not to go anyway! We really are hanging onto a thread with our grandparent access that we know that one wrong move and that's probably it. If, however, you have no access at all to your child/grandchildren, then we totally agree you should go to public events, as long as there are no traumatic show downs with the Narc at the event, then of course there is nothing stopping you from going, you have nothing else to lose and only something to gain - it is your right and supposedly a free world?!!!!!

Also, last note, I totally relate and sympathise with one recent poster, single Mum who has lost her dear son through Narc take over. I was in exactly the same situation too for many years - my son & I were a very close and happy family - I met Freedove Snr later in life closer to when my son got Narc lovebombed and fell hook line & sinker. Freedove Snr has been my saving grace, he has listened, advised and propped me up til I thought he could do no more, bless him, and this has helped me keep sane through all this trauma (plus some counselling). I don't know what I would have done if he hadn't been around during all these hard years of virtually losing my only dearest son to the worst person he could have ever met, but we 'Freedoves' still have faith in that one day love will win and free our family. Meanwhile no one can break the bond of parental love that we have for our son and granddaughter - not even a malignant Narc!

Sep 01, 2014
mother of stroke survivor
by: Anonymous

I would be careful of Facebook. Even that is not going to save you from a defamation or law suit, if you name names.
Believe me, I have researched it all. Besides, the narc will just point you out as a bitter old lady, and sue you. That is what they do best. I believe you have to appear quiet.

If you live nearby, and they go to church, give flowers in the name of your family at a Sunday service. Go to see the children perform where it is a public place. Don't appear to be wronged, or be a victim. We are victims, but, that is what the
narc loves. If the children go to school, contact the school to give books, or anything else you could afford. A lot of schools are welcoming I-Pads, etc. for the students. Give what you can afford, in the name of the student. Appear as you are, a loving grandparent. Who could fault that? The narc would look pretty foolish to the school or church if he gets mad at nice gestures
from loving grandparents. Narcs hate to be outed---by you
or anyone else. But, use caution on Facebook or any other social media.

Sep 01, 2014
Hi
by: YG

Hello anon
Glad you are finding solace in the church, I would like that too, but unfortunately my work is all unsocial hours, so cannot go. I am thinking strongly of outting my GC nasty stepfamily too, but hesitant! I was thinking of posting on FB through the grandparents alienation page, telling how my GD has had not just her devoted family taken away from her,and I mean everyone, but also her name! (Her middle and last, which are my names)bit afraid, what do you think? I think if they are doing what they think is right, then they won't mind!
Sorry I spelt your name wrong scarlet, that's the trouble with not be able to look back and why I have posted twice.
Nosmile xx

Sep 01, 2014
oh joy
by: YG

Scarlot what wonderful news on your daughters wedding. I'm so pleased for you that it all went off so well and that your estranged daughter didn't ruin it for you. You were very strong and I must do the same in asking God to protect my heart as he did yours. The comparison to a pigeon did make me laugh and was very apped!
I'm feeling down this week as my little GD will be starting school this week for the first time. I can just imaging her little uniform hanging in readeness, she would have phoned me when she got home to fell me all about her first day at school.
Also I've seen a couple of photos of her looking all grown up, really upset me! Best I don't see any more I think.
Anyway, thanks so much for sharing your wedding story with us, I was really interested to find out what happened. God Bless xx

Aug 31, 2014
mother of stroke survivor
by: Anonymous

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers.
For the poster who is afraid to go to school performances, don't be. It is a public place. No one can stop you from
going. Take a friend. I have gone, and sat with my daughter's friends who have also been banned from seeing her, and hate him as much as I do. I know hate is a strong word, and i have committed to going to a Bible Study group. There are many women who will support you, and pray for and with you.
They have something in their lives that they are trying to understand, too. Although I have always considered myself to be spiritual, I really feel the pull to understand this.
I have a lot in my confused and upset mind right now, and even thoughts about exposing my SIL in a very offhand way.
Letting someone else out him. This may not be healthy. I may not have recovered enough to think it might not work, but I am going to try.

Aug 30, 2014
So moved
by: Nosmiles

I want to echo Scarlett's thoughts Annon; I was so moved by your post. I too pray that your daughter will have some recovery from her stroke and that God will help to heal your broken heart.

I was so relieved to see your post Scarlett. I've been thinking about you every day since your daughter's wedding and am thrilled beyond words that you enjoyed such a special day. Your nick name for your s.i.l. is brilliant, and yes, it made me laugh.

I was particularly moved by your eloquence in describing how your faith carried you through the day and how God protected your heart and shielded you from your s.i.l.'s hatred. That brought tears to my eyes.

For so long I prayed about our estrangement from our son. At times my prayers were full of anger and frustration because all I wanted was to have my boy back in my life and I couldn't understand why the estrangement not only continued but seemed to get worse. At the same time, I would pray for protection. I didn't know why at the time, it just felt like the right thing to do.

A few months ago the answer came. The reason for the continued estrangement is because God is protecting me. He's protecting me the only way He can by keeping my narc. d.i.l. and my son away from me.

She is a dangerous person and by his association with her, so is my son. For you to have been able to enjoy your daughter's wedding to the point where you were unaffected by their presence, is a testament to your faith and the presence of God in your life.

I don't believe I could ever be in such close proximity to my d.i.l. and carry my self as well as you. You're an inspiration Scarlett. Thank you.


Aug 29, 2014
Wedding Update
by: Scarlet Jones

First, I wanted to add my sympathy for your daughter's stroke. Yes, I believe stress can lead a person down that path. This shows how deadly stress takes a toll on a person over time. I can't imagine what your daughter went through to bring her to that point. I pray that she can recover and that God will heal your broken heart.

Everyone knows I was going to be seeing my estranged daughter and the narc which is what I will call him. Actually, I my true nickname for him is the pigeon. Why you ask? Because he shits on everyone and walks around as if he owns the place. lol. I hope I made some laugh over this comparison.:)

I wanted to share that I prayed to the Lord to ask him for his grace and to protect my heart. He did.
I saw my estranged daughter as she was one of the bridesmaids and I had to get the bride ready in her wedding gown that I made for her. She was a dream and sparkling with happiness and I could not take my eyes off her. There was a bridal suite at the venue and my estranged daughter came waltzing in and without looking at me asked if she could touch the dress as I got it out of the bag. Without thinking I said sure. I was going to take the high road. I want to share that God had a protective shield over my heart that day. I was treated like I was a stranger by my estranged daughter and that day it was o'k. Business as usual. I was unaffected! I stayed focused on my youngest and relished each moment of getting her in her dress and watching pictures being taken by the photographer. All being done in the same room and I did not care. My estranged daughter I now realized could not hurt me anymore. It was if I was being protected and I was.
The night was magical and I watched the father of the bride dance his last dance and we celebrated with happiness and a spirit of celebration. I even forgot that my daughter and narc sil were there. They disappeared later on in the night without a goodby and I did not notice or care. I looked on the narc as a parasite eating our food. I realized he is not worth my focus and time. My girlfriend innocently took a picture and accidentally caught the narc with a look of hate on his face. I said good job you caught what he is under the charming mask he wears.
My DH and I realize we will not be seeing our estranged daughter for a long long time. This is now o'k as I have God's grace on my heart. I say all this with hope if you go to God and ask with a sincere heart for his grace and protection of your heart he will grant your prayer. Again, I am still smiling with happiness that the wedding was magical and was a blessing for my husband and myself which was not expected. We stayed in the moment.
I intend to focus on the people that want to be in my life and ignore the people that don't. I cannot change that. I realize that if my daughter wants me and my DH in her life we will meet her with joy in our heart but we will not be treated like we have in the past with no respect. It is her choice. Her choice.


Aug 29, 2014
How terrible
by: YG

Oh Anon! What a terrible situation, It's the only thing to do, to let go of your daughter, I decided the same thing, I managed it for a short time, but I fond it impossible to stop thinking of my D&GC as I love them so,I try to dislike my D, but really I just want her & my beloved GC back! What can you do?

I too went to court for visitation rights to my GC, but the lies came thick & fast, not only in the courts but also in their statements, so although I went to court three times, it didn't actually get to the final hearing, it was thrown out! I then had to pass them(on my own)in the court car park whooping & cheering, even my D!!

You have put a thought into my head re: school performances, but my little GC would not recognize me after 2yrs & also my Laila's step-family would probably call the police &/or get a restraining order on me, so maybe not a good idea for me, but I would love to!
Goodluck to you though.

Do you think your nasty s.i.l's behaviour caused your D stroke? they can be caused by stress. I do hope she recovers & I wish you well too xx


Aug 27, 2014
So Sorry
by: Anonymous

My heart aches to read about your daughter, her stroke, your narcissist SIL, etc.

I hope you have the chance to tell your mother that you are going to take care of yourself, that you are seeing the children at school performances and cheering them on! These are positive things that may give her a ray of hope for you.

I will pray that God intervenes in this situation for you. He can do all things, in spite of narcissists and lawyers.

Aug 27, 2014
So Sorry
by: Anonymous

My heart aches to read about your daughter, her stroke, your narcissist SIL, etc.

I hope you have the chance to tell your mother that you are going to take care of yourself, that you are seeing the children at school performances and cheering them on! These are positive things that may give her a ray of hope for you.

I will pray that God intervenes in this situation for you. He can do all things, in spite of narcissists and lawyers.

Aug 27, 2014
So Sorry
by: Anonymous

My heart aches to read about your daughter, her stroke, your narcissist SIL, etc.

I hope you have the chance to tell your mother that you are going to take care of yourself, that you are seeing the children at school performances and cheering them on! These are positive things that may give her a ray of hope for you.

I will pray that God intervenes in this situation for you. He can do all things, in spite of narcissists and lawyers.

Aug 27, 2014
update on my daughter with stroke
by: Anonymous

Since I have struggled with so much in the last 3 years, with my husband's death, my daughter's stroke, and now my 93
year old mother's impending death, I have had to make that major decision that I did not want to ever make.

I have to say my own secret goodbye to my daughter, stop the lawsuit against his phony Power of Attorney, and subsequent
signing over of her half of the house. Even though I could challenge the POA in court, which I pursued, the narcissist
sil has his attorney write to say that whatever I challenged,
she would undo ( the POA ) and write it over to him again.

He says this because he is in total control of her with her inability to speak or walk. I cannot afford any more legal bills, as I have a fixed income. And, as I said, you never WIn with a narcissist. I was staying at home in bed, not seeing friends, or
doing any more than going to the grocery store and my therapist appointment, and reading every legal thing I could.
It was so unhealthy for me. I honestly, at some points, hoped I would die. I have to rebuild some kind of life for myself.

My heart is so heavy, I don't know who I am supposed to be anymore. With the help of my therapist, I hope to find out.

I have also decided to attend any school performances of my grandchildren. Even though he has taken them away from me,
they will see my face, being proud of them. It is a public place,
but they will see me cheering them on.

I hope my journey will help me somewhat to find my place. I am a young 69, and too young to let this define me. I will
be volunteering with a group near me that is operating a stroke recovery center. The woman who is also doing fund raising is a woman who had a brain stem stroke, recovered,
and now helps this charity. She has met my daughter once, in the rehab hospital to inspire her. Little did this woman know
what kind of husband my daughter has. I think it will be a good therapy for myself. I honestly feel he will let her die
due to the stress he is placing on her.

No more that I can say, as this is the second day of my process of recovering from a narcissist, and the extreme damage they cause to all around them.


Aug 27, 2014
Sorry
by: YG

Hello Anon
Sorry to hear of your terrible plight, my mother had a stroke so I know how awful that is. It must be heartbreaking for you not to be there for your dear Daughter, you would think he would like the help from you. As you say, when our beloveds end up with a Narcissist the door is closed on us and there seems to be no way back!
Equally sad for you 'sorrows'

I did write a post on Monday morning, but it will not let me post from my mobile & I was away for a few days at my sisters,so no pc to send from. Why will it not let me send from my Samsung mobile? It's happened before too.

Aug 26, 2014
Narcissitic DIL
by: sorrow

I am experiencing this with my sons partner,they have been together 11 years. I raised him alone from age 4 and we were very close. Over the the time they have been together she dispalyed a lot of jelousy in his relationshps with me and others. She had a difficult childhood. I have 2 grandsons that I havnt been able to see now for 4 months and neither can my 78 year old mother see them. I pray that one day he gets out of this controlling relationship and recognises the danger of this kind of relationship.

Aug 26, 2014
Narcissitic DIL
by: sorrow

I am experiencing this with my sons partner,they have been together 11 years. I raised him alone from age 4 and we were very close. Over the the time they have been together she dispalyed a lot of jelousy in his relationshps with me and others. She had a difficult childhood. I have 2 grandsons that I havnt been able to see now for 4 months and neither can my 78 year old mother see them. I pray that one day he gets out of this controlling relationship and recognises the danger of this kind of relationship.

Aug 24, 2014
Daughter has stroke
by: Anonymous

I have read all the comments by the loving parents whose
children married narcissists.

I knew, her sisters and brother knew that my youngest
changed after marriage. Little did we know what hell we would be put through. She did want a divorce, and asked me and her father about it. I supported her wholeheartedly, as I was really
noticing his strange and selfish behavior. Her father, my ex,
passed it off as a fight they would mend.

She stayed because of my wonderful grandchildren. He began working at home, because of his attitude at work. 1 1/2 months later, my daughter had a brain stem stroke. She cannot speak ( Aphasia) and cannot walk, and other horrifying things that happened to her as result of stroke.

Sil kicked everyone of the family out of the house, except her wealthy father, who pays all bills and gives sil money on the side. He is being emotionally blackmailed by sil, because he will be kicked out, too, if he does not comply. Caretakers come and go because of his temper. My grandchildren, 10
and 12, are objects of his rage, and have to babysit their Mom
while he goes out and drinks and plays around.
Go to Court! of course I tried, but he lies when APS and police are sent in. AND my poor daughter defends him. So, she sends police and APS away to protect him.
2 1/2 years of not seeing them. You CANNOT win, once your child marries a narcissist. I am in counseling. My husband passed away, and my Mother, age 93, is losing any will to live.
I hate to have had her see this horror, and what it has done to me. I am determined to get back to lif, however, after 2 1/2
years of abuse in all forms----- from my daughter, too,

Aug 10, 2014
There is a Hell
by: Smileless

So sorry to read about your awful situation Anon. As YG points out you really are between a rock and a hard place. Is your D your only child? If not it may be be prudent to talk to her sibling and other family members to see if they are also aware of how she's changed.

Rest assured you are not going mad, although I understand why perhaps you think you might be; we've all been there with endless conversations with family and friends, and our selves, desperately trying to identify what we've done to deserve to be treated so badly. Narcs do detest coming up against some one who is strong enough to make a stand and refuse to 'play their game'. Our refusal to bow and scrape to our son, which in turn would be bowing and scraping to our awful d.i.l. has in part resulted in a total absence of contact with him and our only gc. I don't doubt though, that even if we had the end result would have been the same.

Religion speaks of Hell, some times as an actual physical 'other world' and sometimes as an eternity of separation from God. So we are urged to live the life we've been given in the best way we can, to be aware of our weaknesses and our failings so we can seek forgiveness and so avoid an eternity in Hell. How ironic that having done our best as parents, because our children welcome a viper in to their midst, much like the serpent in the Garden of Eden, our worlds are turned up side down and we now know for certain that there is indeed a Hell. Not because we're separated from God, but because we've been separated from the children and grand children we love.

Perhaps you should consider moving in to a place of your own. I understand your fear of never seeing your daughter or gc again but that wouldn't necessarily be the case. You need to consider your own well being and if your current living arrangements begin to have a negative effect on your mental and physical health, staying in the long term may do you more harm than good.

Not long now Scarlett until the wedding. I hope and pray that all will go well and you'll have a wonderful day of celebration.


Aug 09, 2014
Hell
by: YG

Hello Anon
so sorry to hear about your sad plight! it must be very unpleasant to have to live like that! I would have thought it would be better to move out & get your own little place, than to endure that on a daily basis! But you say you think you would then not see your dear D&GD,so your between a rock & a hard place! Speak to them first and get an assurance that you would still see them, it might make everything better with your relationship with your D. Other than that I don't know what to advise. I hope someone else has something to offer you. Goodluck xx
I tried to post earlier, from my mobile, but it wouldn't take it, so hope this gets through.
And again!

Aug 08, 2014
hell on earth!
by: Anonymous

So glad to find I'm not crazy..at least not yet. I live with my daughter and MN sil. Its the most pain I have ever felt. I have a nine year old GC who I have been with day in and day out all of her life. It has taken awhile but sil has achieved total brai washing of my D. I love her so much and have no idea who she is now. Very frustrating and painful..I want and need more than anything to escape but I know for certain I will never see D or GC again. I am trying to keep powerful which narcs hate and pray a lot.I am resolved to D fate but still hopeful I can make a difference for GC. Thats what keeps me going.

Jul 28, 2014
V.funny!
by: YG

Very funny Scarlett , re reptile cousins
So we must all wait for your wedding stories then
Good-luck !
Saw a picture of my ex & my darling GC , upset me
as he doesn't care if he sees them or not
(he's visiting from Indonesia).
My little Laila looks Just like my D at that age & little Jack is looking like
his dad (nasty s.I.l)
Not good writing this on my little mobile , so I'll be back later. Tablet broken!

Jul 27, 2014
Wedding
by: Scarlet Jones

Thanks so much for asking about the wedding. The wedding is 8/16 and the estranged daughter and narc s.i.l will be there. I am having anxiety attacks about what possibly could be done to ruin the wedding for the bride or how further he can cause strife with my family members.

I will let everyone know what happened. I am of the mind to act as if they are a part of out of town guests that I don't know. We shall see. I am dreading what should be a wonderful happy occasion
for the bride.

I was amused that "the reptile s.i.l" opened a reptile shop. Of course he would feel at home with his cousins. LOL!!!!!

Jul 27, 2014
Scarlett, how did the wedding go?
by: YG

Scarlett, how did the wedding go?
I had a similar situation to you as sadly my prev. m.i.l died. I went to her funeral on Friday in London, all were there (not estranged D). I made up with everyone that my nasty s.i.l had turned against me, as of cause he has now turned on them as well! I even made peace with my ex! But he visited them yesterday, so not sure if the reconciliation stands, after the visit.
But found out some interesting news, they (D&s.i.l) have moved in with his M&D! I don't know when, but that can't be good for relations, they couldn't have paid their rent, yet he has just opened that reptile shop! So things, maybe Karma, are happening!!
What a terrible lie to say re; your D & new husband annon, but par for the course, as we all now. I did read all the post on here the other day, but didn't have the time to reply, so I'll need to re-read!...

Jul 22, 2014
Living bereavement
by: Nosmiles

You're right Scarlett, the pain does become more bearable with time and it is like your child has died. For any one in this nightmare it's a living bereavement as it's virtually impossible to lay it to rest as where there's life there's always hope, and it's the hope that will not die that's the hardest thing to live with.

You must have so many mixed emotions as the wedding approaches; dying to see your estranged daughter and dreading the possibility of an altercation in equal measure. I hope and pray that all goes well and you are able to enjoy what should be a wonderful and joyful occasion.

I'm sure you're right Freedoves that even though our son is sending the emails and notes she's had plenty of input. I've told myself that so many times and in my lower moments wonder if I'm just fooling myself, but I'm sure what you say is true.

Thank goodness you have your wonderful husband to support you Anonymous. Every one who's posted here can fully understand what you've been going through and only those who have experienced it can truly understand. For your s.i.l. to give the reason he did for saying he was divorcing your daughter is monstrous and unless you've been on the receiving end of a narcs spite and venom it's virtually impossible to believe that people can say such terrible things. That's what makes a site like this so important.

Thank you Scarlett for your original post and willingness to open up your heart because by so doing, you have enabled others to open theirs.




Jul 21, 2014
Recurring Nightmare!
by: Freedoves

A briefer note to thank you Nosmiles and Scarlet Jones for your comments, and apologies for not being able to keep up with replies, but please know that our thoughts are there with our appreciations...

We are glad Nosmiles that you still have hope - the cracks in your son & DiL's marriage are proving these possibilities, meanwhile hang on in there - we have heard that it can take up to eight attempts to actually leave a Narc for good (don't know who is counting)! Your story does sound very similar to ours with the emails/texts etc. because even though they maybe 'sent' by your son, it does not mean that he actually pressed 'send'! We have visions of our DiL either writing directly using our son's log in, or her hovering with rage over him insisting he write certain words,enforcing him to agree just to attempt some peace, like a gun to the head scenario. We must say at present it has gone quiet on that front, but we know that is just the quiet before another storm! Who knows what is around the corner, but we can bet it is more of the same, but perhaps in a different guise. As we all know, Narcs don't sit around too long, before they find something else to kick off about!

Scarlet Jones - good luck with the wedding! Not long now, and it sounds positive that your daughter is wanting to speak with you. I keep reading advice to try to 'keep the channels of communication open' regarding trying to keep in contact with our children/grandchildren in these situations. The clue we believe is not to ask for too much in return, and not to raise your expectations too high - just work with small steps. Unfortunately it does leave you open to get sucked back into the Narc triangulation, but at least you are doing it with your eyes wide open!

All these alienated parents stories, along with the new Anonymous story are all very sad, and like a recurring nightmare - we sympathise with you all. One day we hope we shall all be out of the nightmare and living the dream again of a normal family life!

Freedoves

Jul 18, 2014
So sorry!
by: Scarlet Jones

Oh boy does your situation sound identical to mine.
I know it's a small consolation but I feel your pain and know exactly how you feel.

I too was amazed and heartbroken at the change in my daughter. Gone was the sweet girl I raised and in her place was a mean spirited girl that started acting out passive
aggressive behavior and literally called me liar when I came out and said the things he would do. You see at first it was done when my daughter was not around. Then he started acting out against me in front of her. That she approved hurt the most.

So we had to detach. That helps. Still there is not a day that goes by that I don't think of her.

We will be seeing them at the wedding. I doubt we will see them again after that.

I will say over time the pain gets better. Quite like the death of a child. Time heals all wounds eventually.

Jul 18, 2014
Narcissistic son-in-law tried to ruin my marriage and now has ostracized me from my daughter and grandchildren
by: Anonymous

I have known for years that my son-in-law had a big ego and a very high opinion of himself. He would often make comments that were mean-spirited but I always just laughed them off. He was also disrespectful in many occasions and my daughter always took his side when I would react saying that I took everything personal. I wasn't married at the time and had raised all the children on my own. A few years ago, I found a nice man whom I married. My s-i-l began berating my new husband finding fault in everything he did, how he played with the children, etc. saying that it was his culture and he wanted nothing to do with him but when we had family discussions and he couldn't win the battle he decided to go after me again, this time he called my home out of the blue to tell me he was divorcing my daughter because she (my D) and my husband were having sex (those were the exact words he used.) I know my daughter and besides my husband and I are always together and I know it was slander and told him so, his answer was 'beautiful' and hung up. A few minutes later my daughter called and apologized for him. I told her that that man was dangerous (he has been verbally abusive to her and my children in front of me and my husband) and I was behind her all the way. Needless to say, she never left him. She has told me she cannot make him apologize and that she is trying to work things out in her marriage. Of course he will not apologize because he finally got what he wanted, to get me out of their lives so he can control my daughter. This was a year ago, and he barred me and my husband from their home, so I only get to see the GC when my D comes by to visit. They have moved and I have never gone to their new house. I used to babysit and do things for them and I also used to go to my GC games, I have not for the past year and when I mentioned to my daughter she said no one had been stopping me from going to the games but she never gave us the schedule. Last year before the holidays, I emailed his siblings to let them know why I wasn't participating in any of their events as I was still being invited and I always attended in the past. I only got one response and the rest have been silent and everyone has gone back to their lives as if nothing had happened and he's had no consequences. I am so sad and hurt from my daughter's behavior that I probably sound like I am rambling here. Thank God I have my husband who has been a pillar for me because I have no one to talk about this. I did mention it to my therapist and she said that the s-i-l was a typical narcissist.

Jul 14, 2014
Dear Freedoves
by: Nosmiles

Dear Freedoves, it was good to read your latest post. Yes, we could talk for hours couldn't we; days, weeks or even months. There are so many living this awful nightmare. Until this happened to us, I had no idea that this kind of thing was happening and when I discovered that others were in exactly the same, or similar positions I was horrified at how many are suffering.

I'd always assumed that when grand parents were denied contact with their grand children, it was due to their child's acrimonious divorce. It had never occurred to me that it was all too often because a much loved child became involved with a Narc who systematically destroys that most precious relationship once shared with their parents. Perhaps that's one of the reasons these narcs are so successful, we simply don't see it coming. We were aware of minor 'issues' but never in our worst nightmares would we have imagined this.

To answer your question, the emails we've had from our son have been typed and forwarded by him but a lot of the content is most definitely from her.

Last Christmas Eve we left a small gift (a book) and a card for our grandson on the door step. Early that evening it was literally forced through our letter box with a hand written note from our son. He told us we were no longer a part of his or his son's life, that we were to leave his family alone and stay away and, that we were deliberately provoking a reaction from him; if we didn't desist we would get one. There was no doubting his hand writing but the format of the note especially the poor sentence structure made it clear to us that he wasn't him self. He is a very clever, well educated and meticulous young man.

We received an email in March which upset and worried us so much that we went to see him, they was separated at that point. It was strange seeing him and being in the same room. At one point he said it felt weird us being there. I asked him if it was good weird or bad weird; his face softened momentarily and he said it was a good weird. A few days later they were back together.

Several weeks ago he came to our home full of anger and bitterness as he told us his life was ruined and that we were to blame. He said once again that we were to leave him alone; this we'd been doing until his email in March. A couple of weeks later we were concerned and went down to the house, we thought he was on his own again but she was there. When I physically reached out to him, he stepped back from me saying 'we mustn't do this because it causes too much trouble'. The next day we got another nasty email, why? because we'd gone down to make sure he was OK.

Oh she's good but maybe not quite as good as she thought she was. There appear to be on going problems in the marriage; on the rare occasions friends and acquaintances see them together they comment on how miserable they look. I sensed his inner turmoil the last time I saw him. He didn't say he didn't want anything to do with us, doing so caused too much trouble; we could hear her slamming doors as he spoke.

We love him more than words can say, we'll always be here for him if ever he needs or wants us; that was the last email we sent him. We had a wonderful relationship for almost 27 years. I don't believe she can totally erase that, I can't believe it. We are his parents and she can't change that. While we live there is always a chance, no matter how small, that one day he'll come back to us. That is our dearest hope and maybe, just maybe that's her greatest fear.


Jul 14, 2014
Comforting words
by: Scarlet Jones

Freedoves your post was very comforting and feel free no matter how long it is your words have a lot of wisdom for us all.
Four weeks out from the wedding where I will be seeing the narcissistic SIL since two years ago.

I did hear from my daughter who is getting married that she feels my estranged daughter may want to talk.
It seems she may be realizing she may be seeing us for the last time and also wants to ask me questions that only her mom can answer.

I am not sure how a relationship with her could work with this situation but your post has helped.

Jul 14, 2014
Having Hope
by: Freedoves

Sorry, the last long thread entitled 'Having Hope' should have had our name 'Freedoves' not Anonymous (there are so many Anons on here, so don't want to confuse!)

Jul 14, 2014
Having Hope
by: Anonymous

Thank you Nosmiles - we have read this thread in more detail and your particular similar problems with your son & Narc DiL, and loss of contact with your grandchild, which we are very sorry to hear about too. We have been reading up this subject of Narcisstic Personality Disorder for a couple of years now, in fact we are becoming experts on the subject, with a library building up fast. It makes interesting reading, and proves beyond doubt that this is definitely what we are all suffering from having this impossible disorder brought into our family. However, how to deal with it is another matter, when it is not your choice to get out of the core relationship that is infiltrating your own lives and family bonds, and you can no longer speak to your child about your concerns.

Our Narc DiL managed to put a bomb amongst other members of our son's family too, and the ripple effect was a nightmare, but that's another story. It is what they do, destroy families, 'divide & conquer' is their motto. They take great pleasure from doing this and unfortunately Narc's do it amazingly well. We can only hope that each of our Narc's will trip up one day and meet more than their match!

Meanwhile, we are of course grateful for the small offerings of contact with our son and grandchild, but we have had to endure a lot of swallowing of pride and biting our tongues in order to get to this stage. We even had to succumb to blackmail - just to get some form of regular contact, although still highly controlled, and we doubt whatever we do by adhering to ridiculous 'rules' will ever change that. We have to be so careful of what is said and done when we do have contact, for fear that contact could be stopped at any time. However, we do try our best to enjoy the little time we have together with them, so that good memories can build, no matter what is being said and done. We particularly wanted our granddaughter to know that we still love her, even though we don't see her anywhere near as much as before the 'rift' was made, and thankfully that is something we seem to have achieved.

As we all know sometimes restricting contact can actually make the heart yearn for more, so this could actually be our Karma on our controlling DiL! The fear she has of us getting too close could still happen when our granddaughter is older. We can only hope! The trouble is the more our Granddaughter says she enjoys time with us, the more our DiL will divide us, so it is a tricky balance for us, and our poor son to manage. He doesn't talk about it, but we can tell he finds it hard - he has obviously been given his list of rules too for our visits, which he has to supervise! She is still so young though, so there is a lot of time, and ups & downs to get through before we can have peace of mind that she is going to be ok. Let alone peace and happiness to return for our son, and us all as a family.

As you say one question is, and has crossed our minds too, is it better for our children and grandchildren to know what they are missing, or to cut ties further and get on with our lives somehow, where none of us have to go through anymore added hurt and reminders of what our family life should have been. This is again an open ended question, and we suppose would depend on each circumstance.

In our circs, we are very determined to let our son know that we love him and that the door is always open, whatever has been said and done - we know that he has been trapped and can forgive him for his terrible quandry. However, in order to do that, we have to put up with a lot of continual grief to keep our foot in the door. It's either that, or silence, and we don't think we could handle that even more. The trouble with all of this is that we feel our life is on hold, and at a time of life when we should be enjoying it most - it really is so unfair.

I have a question for you in that does your son actually say directly to you that he doesn't want to see you etc? We too sometimes get nasty emails supposedly from him, and this has been since the fallout with Narc DiL who used to write them to us herself, with no qualms at all about the rude abrasive content! We know without doubt the more recent abusive emails are still from her, but through our son's email address. It is very clear who is 'talking' to us when we get emails, the tone and the way of writing is completely different, so she is fooling no-one, but the problem is that it still hurts even with this knowledge. We do our best not to respond, because we have learnt the hard way, that any form of reaction, good or bad, will get a worse response! There really is no winning... Whenever we get a chance to speak (rarely) to our son soon after another abusive email (although we do not talk specifically about the emails as we have been 'trained' not to bring up the subject) it is clear by his actions that he hadn't written any horrid words. You see although our DiL is conditioning him to be an extension of herself, she forgets that he had a very good upbringing (one that she denies) and those horrid words are not in his vocabulary - let alone his good spirit (which we know he still has deep down).

Lastly (as this is becoming another long thread - we could talk for hours!) We are very sorry to hear about the last horrid letter you received from your son, but with the knowledge we have, perhaps you could also read it with new eyes, knowing that this is not actually from your son but from your evil DiL. This could help you maybe to get a better perspective on things between you, and hopefully make you feel less helpless and have hope that things can improve again in time - because if we don't have hope we have nothing, and after all life is all about hope isn't it......

Freedoves


Jul 12, 2014
Freedoves
by: Nosmiles

I was so sorry to read your story; as they all seem to do, your terrible situation mirrors our own although you are fortunate to still be able to have some contact with your son and grand daughter.

The only contact we have with our son now is in the form of emails and his are usually cruel, abusive and full of complete lies or less than half truths.

Our grandson is now 2 and a half, and we haven't had any contact with him since he was 8 months old. We see him occasionally as they live literally a 2 minute walk down the road, but that's all.

We too have worried about our son's mental and emotional state but there is simply nothing we can do. He says repeatedly that he doesn't want any thing to do with us and that we are responsible for all that is wrong with his life.

We are doing all that we can to move forward and make the most of what we do have. Their house is on the market and we hope and pray that a buyer can be found and they move away. We have made the decision to let him go. We have not abandoned him as we've been accused of doing, simply doing our best to come to terms with the fact he has abandoned us.

I understand your dilemma. The only way out of this for you is to have no contact with your d.i.l. which of course will mean no contact with your son and grand daughter.

We never really had an opportunity to get to know our little grand son and I can now see that that has been a blessing as his loss would have been all the more painful if we'd ever been given the chance to be proper grand parents. We are relieved that we don't have to see our d.i.l., and as painful as it is, there is an element of relief that we have no contact with our son. There is after all, only so much hurt you can take.

Make the most of the contact you do have with your son. It may not seem much but at least you have some thing to work with. Sadly for us, the silence from our son is deafening but is still preferable to his lies and malicious accusations.






Jul 11, 2014
Narc DiL
by: Freedoves

We share your grief and sadness with other parents of Narc SiL and DiL. We (my partner & I) are new on here and glad to have finally found others in this same rocky boat after a year of searching. We usually only find people that are actually in Narc relationships, who have escaped (thankfully for them) but not forums of parents or secondary victims of Narcs by marriage through our children. So this is comforting to know there are other parents reaching out, although we are very sad for you all to know of your similar suffering.

So our question has been for some while now, who out there shares suffering of secondary Narc abuse from their DiL? We've huge ongoing concerns for our son who we used to be very close to, he's now isolated and trapped in a terrible marriage with a Narc wife since our granddaughter was born a few years ago. She gradually exposed her true side after the birth to the point that it became intolerable - her rudeness and demands are astounding.. She eventually found a way to get us out of the picture, because of our influences as parents and the fact that we clearly did not get on with her, however, this was after us both having done absolutely everything she demanded of us to help their family (NOT being 'interfering' or treating them as children as we were often accused)..

Over time it was clear she was using our son for her own gain, and us too, to do everything for her for an easy life, but nothing was enough to please her, and slowly our DiL cottoned on that we could see through her manipulations of us all.. We ended up having a massive argument, she projected all her wrongdoings onto us and there was nothing we could say or do because her mind was made up - we had to be out! The smear campaign followed!.. Fortunately, the majority know these accusations are unwarranted, but these people cannot understand why our son would allow such accusations. They cannot comprehend how in fear of losing his daughter he is. This is why relating our stories to people that have not experienced such pain by being a Narc victim just cannot understand why someone would put up with this abuse.

Our son is a bright intelligent chap, and if anyone told him several years ago this would be happening to him and his parents, he would find it all completely unacceptable and intolerable and would not have stood for it - but now he is broken down and seemingly a changed person in order to be obedient and do his duty to keep in with her, for the sake of his daughter.

So to complete the picture, two years down the line we have had no direct contact with our DiL, but she still communicates by proxy through our son (making out it is him when we clearly know it isn't) with a long list of unreasonable conditions put on us by her, on every tiny thread of a relationship that we're allowed left with our son and granddaughter. We want more than anything to cut ties with her completely on the NO CONTACT rule (the only way to deal with Narcs) but we cannot, as we have to go along with it, for fear that she will completely pull the plug and we will never see our son or granddaughter again.

We wake every day with fear in our hearts for our son and his sanity, but he is so caught up in his Narc's tangle of distortion that we cannot talk to him properly anymore - she has built a solid wall between us. Even when we do briefly see him, it is like she is sitting on his shoulder. No one it seems can talk to him amymore (friends or family) she has put the fear in us all. All our friends who know us and our son from pre-Narc days, cannot believe how bad this has got, how undeserved and unreasonable and crazy this all is, and how our DiL has so much control over us all by coming between us through fear......

The story is too long to relate in one, but we hope to share with other parents in fear of their children and grandchildren welfare and safety. We know our son will not leave his wife at this stage whilst his child is still young, he believes that he should stay for his daughter's sake, perhaps he fears for his daughter, but we know he fears not being able to see her.. his wife has been very cleverly brainwashed by clever bullying tactics, and insiduous 'conditioning' etc. (usual Narc traits. He is a good father, she knows she has him exactly where she wants him by using his obligations to stay close to his daughter against him.

So, if anyone else has suffered the same, it would be helpful to know how you coped with this on a long term basis. This could go on for years, and keeping our strength up and sanity ready for when the time comes to help him when needed is difficult to keep up, with so many twists and turns.....

Unlike some of you on here, we have been advised by counselling to attempt to stay in enough to at least have contact with our son and grandaughter whilst she is growing up, but it is hard when this means that we still have contact by proxy with our DiL. She uses this method to still get to us, and as previously said, we have to put up with all the ridiculous conditions and restrictions put upon us in order to do this, and even though we adhere to all conditions, things do not improve at all to anywhere near normal relations. Our contact is very limited and controlled and there is nothing we can do about it.

Our main fear is for our son and how he is coping with this continual abuse and not able to share this with anyone. Previous to his total 'conditioning' he was able to talk to us on occasions, he knew it was all wrong but felt he had to do everything demanded of his wife to keep in there with his daughter. He fears that his wife will turn on him, so he is stuck, because he doesn't want to be unable to see his child. We all know that his wife is a law unto herself and would make life impossible if he should leave. No court can control a Narc spouse. So we are all at a loss, and can only hope freedom and peace will come to all of us one day, and soon..

How do we all cope until that freedom comes is a never ending open question? Our hearts go out to all victims and parents of victims.

Thank you for listening - Freedoves

(We will copy this onto a a new thread too under 'Freeing our Doves')


Jun 27, 2014
Thats my s.i.l
by: YG

Thank you anon for your advise & sharing your story with us. You describe my s.i.l to a 'T'.
He brought my beautiful little granddaughter a snake for her Xmas present when she was just two & half years old! He told her that when the snake is big enough he will take her to the pet shop & get some new born baby rabbits to feed live to her pet snake!! This was said in front of my other daughter, and was just after I had been 'cut out of their lives' shortly after my daughter (her sister) was out too.

He was also proud to tell the tale of how his friend wanted rid of his pet rabbit so nasty s.i.l took his pet tarantula over & got it to bite the rabbit, then watched laughing as it died in agony!

I did go to court to try & get a visitation order to see my GC, but I was no match for nasty s.i.l & his mother who wrote their statements full of lies & deceit. I couldn't afford a lawyer & therefore lost.

Jun 24, 2014
Sometimes just to painful to read
by: Nosmiles

I haven't posted on here for a while but keep up to date with you all. I couldn't read the posts about the abusive step father in full as they were just too painful. My heart goes out to you and your husband and to you Forgotten Mum and Barbara.

Our son did reach out to us a couple of times in the last 3 months, but such is the hold our dil has over him, it has come to nothing. She has destroyed our relationship and I know I will never be able to look in to his once beautiful and loving eyes again, or be able to to hold him in my arms.

A few weeks ago when I tried to talk to him, she was in the house slamming doors, he told me 'we mustn't do this because it causes too much trouble. Then, we received a terrible email from him. I haven't read it but my husband told me it was the worse one yet and he mentions her by name 24 times!!!

My only hope now is that they sell their house and move away (they live a 2 minute walk down the road from us). To drive past him or see him in the distance, which I did today and he had our grand son with him, is just too much to deal with. It would be better for me not to see him at all.

I don't know what the future holds, I still can't believe this has happened, may be on day he will come to his senses and see her for what she really is. He's hurt us more than words could ever express and even if one day he's released from her clutches, I no longer believe we will ever be able to repair the damage that's been done.

I know she's narcissitic and I don't believe this would have happened if not for her but I'm not sure if I will ever be able to forgive him completely for the pain he's inflicted on us, the pain we must live with for the rest of our lives.

I hope the wedding goes well Scarlett, and that you'll be able to enjoy what should be a wonderful and memorable day.

Jun 23, 2014
Narcissistic Son-in-law
by: Forgotten Mom

Oh my I share my life with so many Left out Moms! I thought we were the only ones going thru this. The pain is terrible. The sil just brought our daughter and our gs down for a visit. That in itself is a miracle. Our GS is 15 months old. We last saw he when he was 2 months. I can't believe our loving daughter fell for this narcissistic man. And yes turned on us for him!!!
Every thing you read in the other blogs just hit repeat in ours.
Our lives have been almost completely destroyed by this jerk!
We will never really recover from what has happened I don't know anyone can. It changes you!
Barbara
The forgotten Mom!

Jun 23, 2014
Narcissistic son-in-law
by: Barbara

Oh my gosh , you are living my nightmare!!! I to feel like my loving daughter died!! Where is she what happen! He controls her every thought about us. This has been going on since 2005. Although we saw sign earlier. Once my husband and I mentioned it we became the enemy! Now she's married to him and they have a son. Our beautiful grandchild. When we get a rare chance to see them he is there. They never come alone. His family who by the way does nothing for them is his number 1 priority. I had a complete break down over this. They were aware but showed no concern. I was just called crazy!!! I feel your pain!!!!

Jun 15, 2014
Narcissistic abusive Stepfather
by: Anonymous

Dear YG- I wanted to write more on the subject, I forgot to tell you that these people are known to brainwash their children and even step kids, and spouses. You have to be educated about these people and don't let them run over you, cause they will if you let them, they are the aggravating '' know it all's '' you will ever want to meet, they won't listen to the truth from an honest person, they are known to be serious trouble makers and good at it. Our son n law went as far as threatening our grandson's real father, by saying'I'll beat him to death if he shows up, he won't let the real father even see the boys, by he lives in Florida, we live in Georgia, and this guy has now caused the worst, my husband now has a heart condition brought on by our son n law terrorizing and bullying him for 15 minutes and I had to call the ambulance 2 nights later cause his Bp was 217/116, enough to cause a stroke or heart attack. The paramedic wanted to have him arrested for terroristic threats and elder abuse of a disabled man over 65, my husband was 66,and a diabetic, so the hospital kept him all night to get his Bp down. I know one thing I feel real sorry for anybody that has had to deal with a person like this, they are bad on your nerves and your emotions, the boys need counseling because of the physical abuse and the mental abuse, he even tortured animals in front of them and killed 2 liters of kittens, chased them down and shot them all dead,and laughed while doing it, we think he has sociopathic brain disease too, we know he's psychotic, we've seen that plenty. You need to do what I did, document every word and statement, date the different things, have it notorized, which makes it legal and then take it to law enforcement, and a lawyer, anytime a child is exposed to someone like that it's child abuse. Thanks Anonymous,

Jun 15, 2014
I agree !
by: Scarlet Jones

I shared awhile back that I would be seeing the narc and my estranged daughter in August for my youngest daughters wedding. I feel guilty that I will be feeling relief once this wedding is over. I agree about the serious nature of these individuals. The change that has happened to my daughter living with this man is shocking. I truly feel that the daughter I raised died.
My youngest daughter explained that I was not missing anything and I was told the 2yr old is not social
and no one is allowed to hold her.
The narcs father and step mom approached my youngest daughter Easter for a get together and said, "Will you please tell your mother we miss her?" That meant so much.
Everything is weird in their life and I cannot imagine not being allowed to hold my GC.
Everything has worked out for the best.

Jun 13, 2014
Narcissistic abusive Stepfather
by: Anonymous

Dear,YG and anyone else that is dealing with a Narcissist, I have been studying these people for 4 years now and it is a severe form of mental illness, and these people are more dangerous than you think, not only do they wreck havoc in your life, but they can be very violent and if they have a combination of Narcissistic Personality and Antisocial Personality Disorder, that's Known as Malignant Narcissism and they are some of the most dangerous people that walk the street. They are capable of having zero empathy and are capable of being very conniving and vindictive, can twist your words and use them against you, don't ever under estimate the damage that these types of Yes very mentally ill people can do to you or especially a stepchild, and cruel to animals as well. What I'm trying to say is if you can record these people and let the law get involved, they are really truly dangerous to be around. Anonymous.

Jun 13, 2014
Thank you
by: YG

Thank you so much Scarlet for your kind words and as you, I have also lost my once beloved daughter to this horrid narcissist & his mother, who is equally as bad if not worse than her son, as I would have thought she would have had some empathy for me, her being a mother & grandmother too, but no!
I have given up now, but will still send cards at b/days & Xmas times, I do still hope.
My thoughts & best wishes are with you Scarlet & all on here in the same sad place xx

Jun 08, 2014
Thanks for the update!
by: Scarlet Jones

I am so relieved this man is suffering the consequences for his actions. Let us know how things turned out.

Jun 08, 2014
Thanks for the update!
by: Scarlet Jones

I am so relieved this man is suffering the consequences for his actions. Let us know how things turned out.

Jun 08, 2014
Thanks for the update!
by: Scarlet Jones

I am so relieved this man is suffering the consequences for his actions. Let us know how things turned out.

Jun 08, 2014
Narcissistic abusive Stepfather
by: Anonymous

You are right these people, especially a guy who is also doesn't have an education, and can't hold down jobs, that makes him more abusive to the boys, see our daughter has 3 boys, the youngest is his and he doesn't abuse him, only the 2 that are not his, but we have now the law on our side, he pitched a sick Psychotic fit early last month and the neighbors called the police, and he spent a few weeks in jail and now has to see a judge, and the police already have documentation of 12 years of abuse in their hands and I have called the DA, so hopefully this is our break, he will be ordered into mental help and meds. But he needs behavior modification and psychotherapy, because even his thinking is messed up bad. I will know more this week.

Jun 07, 2014
So sad!
by: Scarlet Jones

YG my heart goes out to you! I can almost see the look on your face as you saw the card and poem ripped to shred.
All I can say is this is a symptom of a very serious mental disorder that shows how dark this person is inside. You did nothing but reach out to try to heal the breach and got nothing but anger and hatred for your gesture. When I think about my loss it's as if the daughter I raised died and I went through a major crisis. I have come to realize that
God is protecting me from something much worse.
This is a reflection of them. I admire your courage in sending the card and poem. You are a very good person.

Jun 06, 2014
Protect the children
by: Scarlet Jones

I am so sorry you are dealing with this situation. Narcissistic individuals never apologize and never admit to doing anything wrong. If I were in your shoes I would call Family and Children services to get help before your grand kids are destroyed physically or most importantly emotionally destroyed. They need protection and are no match for a adult who is sadistic.

Jun 06, 2014
Narcissistic abusive Stepfather
by: Anonymous

Our daughter hooked up with this young childish guy in 2001, who is about as sick as sick can get. they didn't get married until 2004, and he began abusing our 2 precious grandsons who were at the time only 10 months and 23 months old. then in Febuary of 2002 to March of 2002 he began hitting them on a regular basis and actually beat the younger one when he was not yet 17 months old. By 2004 I knew he was really mean to them and I began watching his sick controlling behavior towards them, and it was starting to get worse, he was using Meth a lot and drinking heavily too. By 2007 I knew he was seriously abusing them, he wouldn't listen to me and he would constantly pick on the older one in mean and nasty ways. In fall of 2008 we moved into a house with them to help them out and the abuse was getting worse physically and then the mental abuse got severe, he would terrorize them in their face and that went one for over 3 years, then we moved back to the town we were in and they moved to a different town, but every time we would go see them our son n law would think of sick ways to abuse them in front of us, and do malicious things to them, he's very sick and gets his kicks off destroying their life, and ours, he's done horrible things to them and me and their grandfather, which he also terrorized him in 2011 at the age of 66, and disabled which he was rushed to hospital 2 days later with Bp 217/116. I have enough to put him away for all the abuse which includes animal cruelty also. His whole family is Narcissistic and a bunch of '' know it all's''. Please Help!

May 09, 2014
So much suffering
by: Nosmiles

Dear Shnthr, I was so sorry to read your post but glad that you felt you could share with us. I never knew that there was so much suffering until I came across sites such as this one. It really does help 'talking' to people who have found them selves in this terrible situation; the living bereavement of losing a much loved child to a narcissitic s.i.l. or d.i.l.

What a dreadful dilemma you are being forced to face and how well Grin&bearIt has expressed the fact, as hard as it is to come to terms with, that we must take care of our selves in order to be able to care for and support our estranged children should they ever decide to come back to us.

You and your husband would be wise, if you haven't done so already, to look into dissolving the business relationship you have with your daughter and s.i.l. This doesn't mean that this will be the course of action you will eventually take, but I do believe that doing so will go some way to reducing the helplessness you both must be feeling. It is that sense of helplessness that I, and I'm sure every one who is in this position, finds one of the most difficult emotions to deal with.

It is very interesting that both you and Scarlett have mentioned a deterioration in the physical appearance of your daughters. This is some thing we have noticed with our son. Once such a good looking young man but now, it's as if the misery he feels on the inside is being worn on the outside.

There's a section on this site entitled 'winning the game' and basically, the only way of winning is to stop playing and 'get out of the game'. As hard as it is for us to comprehend, this is a game to them and they don't care who gets hurt as long as they win in the end.

I realise that having a business connection complicates matters even further, but do investigate to see what your options are; you will have options I'm sure.

May 09, 2014
And yet another!
by: YG

Yes, yet another sad parent! So sorry to hear your sad tale Shnthr, we on here are all in the same boat, so all feel your pain. God Bless.

I sent my Easter Card to my GC with the beautiful poem in for my D. It was posted back through my door the next day, all ripped up along with the poem!

It was my beloved GD 4th B/day yesterday, it was a very hard & sad day to get through. I made sure I was extra busy till late. I was actually on the radio in the morning, talking briefly about this situation. I put happy birthday announcements in two papers & it went on-line with a lovely picture of them both, as my GS B/day is next week, so I put it in for them both. I also put a lovely bit on FB with four lovely pics of my GD, from me holding her when she was first born until when she was about 2yrs. I'll do the same for GS next week too.

I went to a clairvoyant a couple of weeks ago,she said that my D was not happy in the marriage, missed her mother's love & that I would be reunited in about 18mnths, but I don't think I will ever see them again.


May 09, 2014
Taking care of yourself first
by: Scarlet Jones

Shnthr, I could not survive if my husband and myself had to be in partnership with our sil. I can't imagine the stress this is putting you and your husband through. My heart goes out to you. No doubt the sil is trying to make you miserable enough to leave and doing it in the sadistic way a narcissist does to achieve what they want.

I was interested in your daughter and how you say she has gained weight and doesn't take care of herself. I have noticed that when seeing our daughter in the few incidences we had to attend family weddings, she has started wearing clothing a lot older than her age wears. We also have noticed her hair not being taken care of and especially no makeup at all ever. I suppose the sil has asked her to wear no makeup or she doesn't feel good about herself now which makes me sad. She hides it good and that is the only thing I have noticed since she married.

We will be seeing our estranged daughter again in August and have been busy planning our youngest daughter's wedding so our situation will be the only sad part of such a happy occasion for our daughter. I plan to do my best to hold my head up high and celebrate having a new sil that is a wonderful man and a happy addition into our family.

I am unsure if the narcissistic sil will attend the wedding. My youngest doesn't think he will.

So just a reminder to all that have posted that you are still the mother and grandmother and no one can take that away from you.

Happy Mother's Day!


May 09, 2014
How painful
by: grin&bearIt

Oh my, shnthr, this must be so painful for you. It is so difficult to lose such an important relationship at the hands of someone else. After 4 years of trying to understand (through reading & consultation) how a child once so close to us could change and then turn on us so quickly. It takes my breath away thinking that all the years we loved and nurtured them could be forgotten in a moment upon meeting their spouses. I wonder every day what is causing so many young people to behave in such a dysfunctional and unhealthy way. I hope that you and your husband can find a way to sever your business relationship with your daughter and sil, though I understand it won't be easy. When flying the attendants tell us that if oxygen is needed place the mask over yourself first, before your child. The instruction sounds antithetical to our instinct to protect our child first. The reason they tell us to do that, though, is that we can't protect our child if we lose consciousness from lack of oxygen. I think you must get out of your toxic business relationship and, if possible, open your own. This way you can heal and be in a better frame of mind to help your daughter (should she realize she needs your help) and, perhaps, have a business that she could one day join you in without her horrible husband. I wish you strength, perseverance and, eventually, peace.

May 09, 2014
nasty son in law
by: shnthr

Hi everyone
I hav been reading d posts which seems so related to my own life. Our sil has no respect for us. The worst is my husband n me are busibess partners too with our dauggter n sil. A relationship with my daughter so wonderful has totally vanished. Our daughter was an affectionate loving child n sister to her younger brother. Things have gone from bad to worse as d sil does not agree to any of our ideas. Although we have invested 50% we r just puppets in his hands. My husband is a soft peace loving nan. Never had an arguement with anyone in his life now seems to slowly becoming agressive trying to defend us from our sil.
The daughter seems to hav no say or backbone. She dotes on him n accepts everything he says. She still is affectionate to us but can remain aloof n withdrawn wen he is around. In business my husband or my ideasxr pushed aside. Sil is lazy n just lies on his bed watching TV d whole day. Occasionally coming to office , the work is done by us but we hav no rights at all to make changes or improvenents. I hav worked very hard to set this lucrative busibess up wut our daughter n feel bad quitting..which seems to b d only choice to get away from him.
We have put in all our money into this business n with Gods feace it is doing welk wit opportunities to improve it but sil iscd hurdke
I feel so guilty as I pray that someday our daughtercwill wake up n see him fir wat he is...a miser to d core. Will not give gee any pocket money for her persobal needs. She dies not groom herself or buy herself anything. She was an aerobics insrructor before getting married but has in d last 4 tears after marriage gained imnense weight n let herself go. She is a prifessionally qyalified kawter n has turned into a doir nat after marriage
I feel so sad wen I see her as she lioks three times her age. Im not ifshe is internally happy with this marriage but will not confide anything. I try helping her as we wer like friebds but now she shuts us out. Dont know wat to do. We just feel sad n caught in a maze

Apr 17, 2014
Response to Article
by: Scarlet Jones

Thank you Nosmiles and Grin&bearit for all the information. I went to the site and read the article. Wow is all I can say. It explained so much. I plan to print it off so DH can read it. I am the Empath and he is a Apath. This explains why the Narcissist Sil targeted me first. I know he realized I was on to him and what he looked like "under the mask" he wore. He could not get rid of me fast enough. This also explains why the other side of the family felt that I was the one who needed to "do whatever it took" to get my relationship back with my daughter.

I was particularly interested in the term "gas lighting" and the narcissist would accuse me of talking in circles and deny any wrongdoing and the last thing my daughter said to me was she seriously doubted my mental frame of mind.

Please don't get depressed which is only hurting you and your own anger turned inward. I too went through that phase and took medication and then put it aside as I realized it would only do so much and I needed to forgive them for me so I could move on with my life.

Everything I read is that it is a no-win situation and even sucking it up and apologizing would not do anything but entitle them to further abuse.

I pray for my daughter every day. I know she is brainwashed. It hurts to see both my daughter and the narcissist treat her younger sister the way she does. I want to protect my youngest but she needs to handle this herself. Not my battle to fight. It is starting to prove that what I went through was in fact the truth.

The goal of the narcissist is to drive my youngest daughter away through rude treatment. If she ignores the put downs (which she is at the moment) it will be at the expense of her self-esteem. If she stands up like I did then she loses her relationship with her sister. A no win situation anyway you look at it.

I also feel jealous that the narcissist is allowing his side of the family access to my daughter and grandchild but from what my daughter says is that no one really can get close to the child and she is so attached to the narcissist and my daughter (who acts like one now) that there is no connection at all and the child won't go to anyone. This can be due to the age but what I am seeing is that she has no connection to anyone but her parents.

This Saturday will be my GC's birthday party combined with Easter egg hunt and a big family bash with lots of presents. I get a little jealous but know that I would be even more miserable not being allowed to hold my GC. My youngest daughter and husband's side of the family is allowed to attend. I am interested to see how it goes for my daughter and family. I often wonder what the narcissists family think when I am never there to see my GC grow up.

Hugs to all of you and have a Happy Easter!

Apr 17, 2014
Thank you Nosmiles
by: grin&bearIt

Haha! I did the same thing, posted twice and for the same reason. I really appreciate your response. I have not communicated with my son's in-laws for over a year, but I do have all their contact information. I have always wondered why my dil's parents told us she was so controlling (and even gave us some examples!). I have been treated for depression and my doctor wondered if there was any history of mental illness or personality disorders in my dil's family, or with her as she was growing up. I am always weighing how helpful that information would be, compared to the potential for my son to become even more entrenched in his alienation of me. It sounds like your dil's parents are also being treated to her alienating behavior. My son and dil continue to have a good relationship with her parents and to share their lives with them. I do admit to feeling jealous, envious, and angry at times.

Apr 17, 2014
To answer your question
by: Nosmiles

Firstly, sorry my last post went on twice but it really isn't my fault as the first time I entered the word shown below I was informed that I'd done so incorrectly and had to do so again.

I forgot to answer your question Grin&bearIt. Not long after being warned about our daughter in law by her mother, she fell out with her parents and so we lost contact. She has fallen back in with them since falling out with us so I assume they know the situation we're in but no doubt due to the precariousness of their own relationship with her, would be reluctant to say anything on our behalf. Her parents' marriage broke down over 5 months ago which I'm sure will have complicated things even further.

Apr 17, 2014
To answer your question
by: Nosmiles

Firstly, sorry my last post went on twice but it really isn't my fault as the first time I entered the word shown below I was informed that I'd done so incorrectly and had to do so again.

I forgot to answer your question Grin&bearIt. Not long after being warned about our daughter in law by her mother, she fell out with her parents and so we lost contact. She has fallen back in with them since falling out with us so I assume they know the situation we're in but no doubt due to the precariousness of their own relationship with her, would be reluctant to say anything on our behalf. Her parents' marriage broke down over 5 months ago which I'm sure will have complicated things even further.

Apr 15, 2014
Thank you grin&bearIt
by: Nosmiles

Thank you for posting the reference to that article grin&bearIt. Not only has reading it given us a better understanding of the effect our daughter in law has had on our son, but also why our eldest son seems unable and/or unwilling to see the total fabrication of the accusations made against us.

The first time I came on to this site I posted saying that reading Scarlett's post was like being declared sane. You really do feel as if you must be losing your mind when all around are keeping theirs. Sites such as this one, and articles like the one you found are certainly a source of comfort.

I too would like to be able to have more private correspondence via email. There is a site on
www.gransnet.com the forum you'd need is 'am I being unreasonable' and that particular thread is 'cut out of their lives 3'. I and another poster on this site 'know' each other through gransnet. Our user names are slightly different but I'm sure you'd be able to identify us. If you use the name 'grin&bearIt' we would of course recognise you.

Gransnet allows private messaging, so it would be possible to pm email addresses if we wished too.

Apr 15, 2014
Thank you grin&bearIt
by: Nosmiles

Thank you for posting the reference to that article grin&bearIt. Not only has reading it given us a better understanding of the effect our daughter in law has had on our son, but also why our eldest son seems unable and/or unwilling to see the total fabrication of the accusations made against us.

The first time I came on to this site I posted saying that reading Scarlett's post was like being declared sane. You really do feel as if you must be losing your mind when all around are keeping theirs. Sites such as this one, and articles like the one you found are certainly a source of comfort.

I too would like to be able to have more private correspondence via email. There is a site on
www.gransnet.com the forum you'd need is 'am I being unreasonable' and that particular thread is 'cut out of their lives 3'. I and another poster on this site 'know' each other through gransnet. Our user names are slightly different but I'm sure you'd be able to identify us. If you use the name 'grin&bearIt' we would of course recognise you.

Gransnet allows private messaging, so it would be possible to pm email addresses if we wished too.

Apr 15, 2014
No Smiles
by: grin&bearIt (aka anon)

Thank you for sharing your story with me no smiles. I do have support from people outside of my family, but when the people who are closest to us (and are supposed to love us the most), don't even think we are being mistreated, much less abused, it can cause us much pain and confusion. I wanted to ask you this; since your dil's mother/parents once told you she was controlling have you ever talked to them about the havoc their daughter's controlling behavior has wreaked upon your life? Also, is there a way to contact anyone on this website through personal email? I would love to talk to many of the posters in a more personal setting. I am happy to provide my email address to you, but do not want to publicly post.

Apr 15, 2014
Empathy Trap Website
by: grin&bearIt (aka anon)

Hello Fellow Empaths & Estranged Parents. I posted a link to an excellent article yesterday. Some of you were unable to open it. I found the article in PDF form and, hopefully, this will work. Please let me know if it doesn't. This article explained so well what I have been in the dark about for so long. I hope the light it sheds will help you as much as it helped me.

http://www.addictiontoday.org/files/addictiontoday145-sociopath-empath-apath-triad.pdf

P.S. If this doesn't work you should be able to cut/copy and paste the link into your browser window for it to open. Good luck!

Apr 15, 2014
About the link - Sociopaths, Apaths, & Empaths
by: Anonymous

That is a very good article, grin&bearIt! Thank you for posting it. This paragraph explains much about my situation with our Son-in-law:

"Often empaths are targeted by sociopaths because they pose the greatest threat. The empath is usually the first to detect that something is not right and express what s/he senses. As a consequence, the empath is both the sociopath’s number one foe and a source of attraction; the empath’s responses and actions provide excellent entertainment for sociopaths, who use and abuse people for sport."

This is so very helpful. I have a son who is an empath like me, my biggest ally. I wish I could say that my husband is, too. But he is an apath, which means that he'd rather go with the flow. He does side with me, but he doesn't see things right away, which means that he doesn't support me right there on the spot when I am under attack. Of course, my son is also under attack when SIL and daughter come to town - like today!

My daughter and granddaughter arrive this evening. They are staying with us... the relationship hangs on a thread. I've posted several times about our situation before. It's very similar to others' here. We had words yesterday, she has become a narcissist herself. She threatened to go stay with her in-laws - they shower her and her sociopath/narcissist husband with praise. She said to me, "they've told me I am always welcome to stay with them, but you didn't invite me to stay at home when I said I was coming." What?! Now I have to "invite" my children to stay at my house when they are in town? Long story... but, she was told a while back that when she is with her husband, she needs to stay with her inlaws... just a boundary we had to set before I lost my mind, or my son lost his self-control.

Thanks for the article!

Apr 15, 2014
link?
by: YG

Tried that link Grin&bearit, I copied & paste but wouldn't go through??

Apr 14, 2014
An interesting website
by: grin&bearIt

I am amazed and encouraged by all of your intelligent, heartfelt & empathic responses to each other. I wrote the earlier comment about divided families as "anonymous" and for the last 3 years have been trying to understand the strange dynamics of these people with personality disorders that we are all dealing with. I found an interesting article at this website that I thought you might be interested in: http://www.addictiontoday.org/addictiontoday/2013/10/empathy-trap-sociopath-triangle.html. I'd love to hear your comments and feedback.

Apr 14, 2014
A sincere thank you!
by: Scarlet Jones

I loved the poem "Estranged". I also am stunned that you were called such a vile name. I wonder what she would have done if you had stopped the car and walked toward her. Probably run in the opposite direction.

My heart goes out to everyone on this page. We are truly the "Club of Sorrows".

I always say to name caller's or people that cuss is the reason why you call names is that you don't have anything to say.

I know you are shocked at the change of behavior. I am amazed at the influence narcissists have on their victims.

Still having good days and bad but so grateful for the support and compassion of people that know what it is like to deal with a person like this.

Apr 14, 2014
Unbelievable
by: Nosmiles

Oh YG, it's unbelievable it really is. Such venom from a daughter to her mother is, well I don't know what to say. Yes, we do 'know' one another, and even knowing what you've already been through I'm shocked beyond belief.

Lack of family support is so upsetting Scarlett; being asked 'to do something about it' not only gives the impression that we have a power that doesn't exist, but also implies that we are some how responsible. As do those annoying pieces of advice such as 'be the bigger and/or better person'.

Know one, not family or our oldest and dearest friends can fully understand what we all go through. For some, they are able to sympathise and give the most amasing levels of support, but for others, and it is so much harder when these are family members, it is quite simply illogical for such treatment to be metered out with out provocation.

We must have done something for this to be happening, may be if we had it would be easier to understand and live with. The pain of being rejected and seemingly hated by your own child who you've loved and cared for from the beginning is, as has been said, a living bereavement. There are no cards of condolence and flowers for comfort, just this never ending pain of separation, because we can't stop believing that 'where there's life there's hope'.

Apr 14, 2014
Here's the poem
by: YG

Estranged" ....A Mother's Day poem

So long ago, I carried you
Feeing your tiny body just under my heart
Smiling when I felt you turn and roll.

Heart pounding, I held you in my arms
Caressed your tiny fingers
Scared of the love I felt.

What if something happens to you?
Should I guard my heart?
Too late...heart's already gone.
I'm crazy for you.

You only wanted Mummy,
Then you only wanted Daddy.
We were your world.

Until you didn't want me
Anymore.

Today defeated and numb
I say goodbye
To what I wish were true.

I set you free
to live your life
to never come back to me.

Do I hope? Always.
Do I wish you'd change? Of course.
Is it likely? No.
Do I regret having you? Never.
Do I forgive you? You didn't ask.
Did I cause the mess in your life? No
Am I happy without you? I'm working on it.
Do I like myself? Getting there.

Do I like you? No
Do I love you?

Always.

Apr 14, 2014
Same sad stories!
by: YG

Yes our stories are all very much the same, my story is below somewhere, Nosmiles & I 'know' each other from another thread, so fully aware of all the sad & horrible situations over the years!
I went out and bought cute Easter cards for my beloved GC, which I want to send next week and I will put a beautiful peom in for my D called 'A Mother's day poem" very poignant, about how much a Mother loves her child, but will now let go. I'll try to post it on here later.
I have still been hoping for a knock on the door, a txt,email or even a hand written letter from my D, but yesterday all hope was finally dashed & I know I must move on & forget my beloved GC&D and I will not see them grow up, for sure now!
We live only 5mins away, off the same through road. I was driving in my car down said rd. when I passed a couple walking, that I then realized was my D & Narssistic s.i.l, they saw me first and as I passed my D shouted out very loud so I heard it as I passed in my car.."C**T" & my s.i.l shouted "nasty bitch" my toddler GS was walking along side them & I take it my darling little GD was in the buggy, but I passed so quick I didn't see. It really shook me up as I was hoping that maybe their marriage was becoming rocky again, as it always was before I & the rest of our family were 'cut out'
That evening my Nice D txt/ph me as she had been on FB where her cousin had put that he had collapsed with an ulcer & had been taken to hospital! ND wrote underneath 'wish you better....' then D (with Narsistic s.i.l) wrote..'.....that c**t above couldn't care less so fake, f***ing bitch' but of course without the stars.
You would think my D had been draged up, reading all this, but no, she had a really good upbringing & only started acting like this when we were all cut out of her & her C lives! I think he has got her on cocain (which he takes all the time along with pot), as that would explain her terrible behaviour. So from all that I realize & have to except there is no hope now!

Apr 13, 2014
I feel your pain....
by: Scarlet Jones

Nosmiles yes we have had no family support. My extended family confronted me at Christmas saying do whatever it takes to resolve this meaning I have control over it. I have come to understand that people not involved do not understand narcissism.

My youngest daughter is getting married in August. She tells me on two occasions having to let her and her fiance out of the house because my daughter & narcissist disappear when invited over. What horrible treatment from her sister! I am shocked. I told my youngest daughter when they invite you over and disappear, let yourselves out but don't close the door! The unspoken message being if you won't walkus to the door andclose it behind us? We won't close the door either!!!

Our grandchild has just turned two. My youngest daughter is not allowed to hold her. My grandchild has no highchair and the nsrcissist holds her while he eats. Another message is "mine"!

I would never have had a relationship. So just waiting on how long my youngest daughter will allow herself to be treated this way. I hope not long....

Apr 13, 2014
Divided Family
by: Nosmiles

Dear anonymous, I have just read your post and I wanted to tell you that you could have been writing about our own situation.

I last posted on here in March. I had trouble sending my message through which is why I kept on trying and it was then posted 3 times! - sorry about that. We thought we'd had a break through but unfortunately although it was just a tiny glimmer of hope, things now appear to have gone back to the way they were, and have been for 2 years.

Our dil's mother warned my husband that she was controlling, and if ever offended, there would be no going back. Like you, we couldn't have envisioned the extent of her ability to control, to divide and all but destroy our family with her lies and manipulative behavior.

Not only have we been denied contact with our son, but our only grandchild who was 2 at the beginning of the year, and who we haven't seen since he was 8 months old.

My mil up until the New Year, continued to have contact with them because despite the way we were being treated, she didn't want to lose contact with our son and her great grand child. I understand your pain, I too could not be indifferent to the pain and suffering of those I love in order to satisfy my own desires.

We received a particularly nasty letter on Christmas Eve which was pushed through our letter box together with our small Christmas gift, a book, to our grandchild.

My mil, eventually realising the true horror and extent of our treatment wrote to our son telling him that she'd always love him but could no longer tolerate his treatment of his parents and so couldn't see him any more.

You are not alone, there are thousands of parents and grand parents being denied their children and grand children due to the narcissitic nature of the partners they have chosen.

Our son has turned his back on almost all of his own family accept his older brother. Our eldest son's at times refusal to accept that what we tell him is indeed the truth, has been particularly hurtful and has resulted in some very emotive and damaging conversations. We now feel however, that he is becoming more understanding of the pain we've had too, and continue to endure.

I realise now that he does try and tell his brother when he disagrees with they way he behaves, but is also concerned about their relationship being damaged. We do not want them to fall out, but that doesn't stop the feeling of being hurt and unfairly judged by our eldest son.

Only those who go through what we are going through can truly understand and know how terrible this is. Through no fault of their own, you family simply cannot begin to understand the extent of your pain and suffering, but try to be patient, it may take some time but like my mil, they may get there in the end.



Apr 12, 2014
DIL Dividing Our Family
by: Anonymous

My dil is a narcissist and, perhaps, a sociopath. Since meeting her my once close relationship with my son has deteriorated and I now haven't seen him in over a year. Before they were married my dil's mother (and then later both of her parents) told my husband and I that she was very controlling. We said no more and neither did they. So many people may be labeled "controlling" and I didn't think much of it. Boy, did we get a shock! In less than 4 years my dil has not only caused the estrangement of my son, but has divided my family and created dissension and chaos among us. Though my family is somewhat sympathetic, they also do not see my son's (whose hatred and abuse toward me has reached epic proportions) and dil's behavior as a serious problem. They want to continue a relationship with my son and dil and tell me that my son and dil have done nothing to them. If someone were abusing my loved one I could not maintain a relationship with them knowing this. I am constantly upset, not just at the loss of my relationship with my son, but with my family's unwillingness to take a stronger stand in supporting me. Has anyone else had this problem?

Mar 18, 2014
Don't give up
by: Nosmiles

It's been a while since I came on here and your latest post resonated with me Bob, it was an exact replica of my own situation. Our son cut us out of his life and in particular his friends have accused us of having done that to him. One recently accused us of destroying him.

Such is the powerful influence of our d.i.l. we really believed our situation was hopeless, that is until very recently, we learned that our son has left her.

We have even managed tentative direct contact, the first for me in 18 months. It is very early days and we have no idea what the future may hold but the fact that he has left is truly miraculous. Tragic as there is a young child involved, our grand child, but no less miraculous for that.

We decided some time ago to get out of the game as allowing ourselves to be her pawns would only result in more pain and suffering.

So please don't give up. However impossible your dreams may be keep hold of them. We always believed she would eventually over play her hand and it would seem that she has done so.

There is of course the possibility that he will go back, but from what we know he's adamant that the marriage is over.

Perhaps refusing to play the game took some of the pressure from him, and he realised that the only pressure was her's.

Keep the flame of hope burning, and please God all our children will be released from the clutches of their narcissitic partners, and will return to their parents and families who love and miss them so much.

Mar 18, 2014
Don't give up
by: Nosmiles

It's been a while since I came on here and your latest post resonated with me Bob, it was an exact replica of my own situation. Our son cut us out of his life and in particular his friends have accused us of having done that to him. One recently accused us of destroying him.

Such is the powerful influence of our d.i.l. we really believed our situation was hopeless, that is until very recently, we learned that our son has left her.

We have even managed tentative direct contact, the first for me in 18 months. It is very early days and we have no idea what the future may hold but the fact that he has left is truly miraculous. Tragic as there is a young child involved, our grand child, but no less miraculous for that.

We decided some time ago to get out of the game as allowing ourselves to be her pawns would only result in more pain and suffering.

So please don't give up. However impossible your dreams may be keep hold of them. We always believed she would eventually over play her hand and it would seem that she has done so.

There is of course the possibility that he will go back, but from what we know he's adamant that the marriage is over.

Perhaps refusing to play the game took some of the pressure from him, and he realised that the only pressure was her's.

Keep the flame of hope burning, and please God all our children will be released from the clutches of their narcissitic partners, and will return to their parents and families who love and miss them so much.

Mar 18, 2014
Don't give up
by: Nosmiles

It's been a while since I came on here and your latest post resonated with me Bob, it was an exact replica of my own situation. Our son cut us out of his life and in particular his friends have accused us of having done that to him. One recently accused us of destroying him.

Such is the powerful influence of our d.i.l. we really believed our situation was hopeless, that is until very recently, we learned that our son has left her.

We have even managed tentative direct contact, the first for me in 18 months. It is very early days and we have no idea what the future may hold but the fact that he has left is truly miraculous. Tragic as there is a young child involved, our grand child, but no less miraculous for that.

We decided some time ago to get out of the game as allowing ourselves to be her pawns would only result in more pain and suffering.

So please don't give up. However impossible your dreams may be keep hold of them. We always believed she would eventually over play her hand and it would seem that she has done so.

There is of course the possibility that he will go back, but from what we know he's adamant that the marriage is over.

Perhaps refusing to play the game took some of the pressure from him, and he realised that the only pressure was her's.

Keep the flame of hope burning, and please God all our children will be released from the clutches of their narcissitic partners, and will return to their parents and families who love and miss them so much.

Mar 01, 2014
So true
by: Bob

Scarlet, your situation sounds much like ours. We have been cut out of our sons life but the story seems to have been reversed making us the ones who have cut him out. I have even had his friends and family telling me to save him. But how can l when he has told me l am no longer a part of his family and stay away. All l hear are contradictory stories. I would love for him to return but refuse to to these lies on board. Trouble is my dil is an expert on propaganda , she has had a lifetimes experience, we are only amateurs.

Feb 28, 2014
Good Advice
by: Scarlet Konrs

I agree with the advice from everyone. I would meet with him and tape the session. Beware though. They always have a agenda and are strategic planners. I feel your pain. Take care that he doesn't mistreat you. They are great liars. I mentioned my family on my husband's side cornered me at Christmas. My SIL lied to my family and told them it was my daughter that was keeping the breach going and not him the louse. They believe him and my family thinks it's all me. Still I won't sacrifice my self esteem and kiss his rear end. Nothing would change even if I did.
I keep hoping my daughter will come knock on the door and we would welcome her with open arms. Our GC is fixing to celebrate her 2nd birthday in April. I feel sad but remember that we are not the ones holding a person hostage as punishment.
So I feel sad but realize it is out of my control. I am disappointed that my daughter won't budge on the issue.
I hope he is worth giving up her parents. Must be as she is still with him.

Feb 28, 2014
Sociopaths
by: Bob

The trouble l,ve found with lies is that most people don't recognize a sociopath, usually only their victims. Most people think it must be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other and you even get the full blame, because sociopaths live by having an enemy to create empathy from an ally. Very often the allies then become the victims as we have found out to our cost. It's an ongoing cycle of devastation and the truth is. Most people don't believe you, even close family members. The only way of winning the game is not to play it anymore which is what we do. Very hard, but gradually you find yourself a little more, bit by bit and who knows maybe one day you,ll regain some peace?

Feb 28, 2014
Sociopaths
by: Bob

The trouble l,ve found with lies is that most people don't recognize a sociopath, usually only their victims. Most people think it must be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other and you even get the full blame, because sociopaths live by having an enemy to create empathy from an ally. Very often the allies then become the victims as we have found out to our cost. It's an ongoing cycle of devastation and the truth is. Most people don't believe you, even close family members. The only way of winning the game is not to play it anymore which is what we do. Very hard, but gradually you find yourself a little more, bit by bit and who knows maybe one day you,ll regain some peace?

Feb 28, 2014
Good advise
by: YG

Hello Bob
That is so true about the lies,my s.i.l is a pathological liar, he cannot say a sentence without a lie in it and his lies about me have been mind blowing!
Such good advice about recording the conversations. I have always thought how great it would be to run a recording of his lies followed by a video of what really happened and was said, any one got a magic wand?
Best of luck to you Bob, with your Son and GS, hope you sort it out and get to see them again soon.
xx

Feb 28, 2014
Be carefull
by: Bob

You're right it doesnt get any easier. Someone said its like a living bereavement. The last time l spoke to my son was nearly a year ago, l made no progress. I miss him like crazy and my grandson too. I remember being invited to his stag weekend and sharing a room, it was a real honor but seems a lifetime away now. He has changed so much. If this son in law is anything like my daughter in law then beware, he will not be interested in anything that is good for your or your grandchildren only himself and his main weapon will be lies. So l would say too, yes meet him, but if possible tape the conversation.

Feb 28, 2014
meet him
by: YG

Hello new anon and welcome to the club of sorrows.
Meet him and do what ever it takes to get your D & GC back. I would give anything for the chance. I haven't seen my beloved D & GC for 15mnths and my heart and soul are broken. My story is almost identical to yours! I know I will never get to see them again until they are no longer together. The pain doesn't lessen with time, I had a really bad night last night, thinking about them, even though I now take 'Kalms night" to help me sleep.
So go and meet him, eat humble pie and then if you are allowed to see your D&GC, see them and stay out of his way, thats what I would do.
Good luck and let us know, how it went, I will be very interested to know. xx

Feb 27, 2014
Help
by: Anonymous

Since I have read these post from everyone I'm starting to realize I'm not crazy , this is happening to me now my son n law cheated on my daughter. And she left him for a period , and she is the one who told us about his crazy behavior when she left him she told us what is was called , what I don't understand why she was drawn back to him , now he has managed to take her completely away from us and our two grandchildren also the oldest child is not even his but the father has nothing to do with him so we can't even see him , now my crazy son n law is the only one communicating with us and he told us we can't see the kids until we have a meeting with him , every thing has to be on his terms , does anybody have a answer should we meet with him or not I'm thinking he might be trying to stage something and make us look even worst to my daughter

Dec 31, 2013
Happy New Year!
by: Scarlet Jones

I personally am glad to see 2013 go. Only cloud over the horizon is the wedding. Thank you No Smiles for your post.

It always amazes me that narcissistic people do the same things to those who have shared their stories with me.

All of you have helped me and I wish you the best year possible in 2014!:)

Dec 31, 2013
NY
by: YG

"HAPPY NEW YEAR" Scarlet and all on here, let's hope 2014 will be a better year for us all and who knows how our lives will be, come Christmas of 2014. Love to you all and Good luck for 2014. xxxxx

Dec 31, 2013
Declared sane
by: Nosmiles

Thank you once again Scarlet for your invaluable insight. I was so relieved to read the final paragraph of your first message about being expected to be able to resolve the awful situation.

Some family members, friends and mere acquaintances have said to me countless times that I should do what ever it takes to bring about a resolution. Be the bigger/better person, have a balanced view, keep your thoughts and feelings to yourself, don't over react, react only with love, don't react at all.

I have always felt that there is nothing I can do and felt that perhaps there was something wrong with me for thinking in this way; I feel so much better now that I've read your update.

My narcissitic d.i.l. hides behind my son in the same way your s.i.l. hides behind your daughter.

When I first came on to this site, a couple of months ago I think, I looked at the section entitled 'Winning the game' where I read that, in a nuts' shell, you can't win the game. The only way of winning is to get out of the game. When I tell my critics this they look at me as if I am mad. Reading your update has really helped me to be more confident that I am not.

Dec 29, 2013
Thank you
by: Scarlet Jones

No one but those on this board who have experienced having the unfortunate experience of having a narcissist enter their family understand. They just don't get it do they?

My DH frustrated with the situation has just given a copy of the email stream between me and the narcissist a year ago to all his brothers and sisters. In this email the narcissist is telling me off and telling me to go bully someone else and that I can't have a relationship with my GC. My DH wants family to see the lack of respect this man has shown for his new MIL and what type of person he is.

So far I have not heard a thing back. I think they all are in over their heads with this situation and don't know what to think now.

My DH has been talking to me as the wound has ripped open and I go into self defense mode and feel depressed. I asked him what if family turns on me? In my email exchange with the narcissist I am very upset and they might not understand because at the time I knew I had lost my daughter and GC. I said they might just have a issue with me too. That was a dark period in my life at the time. I was reeling from the rejection I felt at the time.

DH says it doesn't matter what they think because we are the ones dealing with the situation, not them. He is right and has helped me "try" to not let all this stuff bother me.

I don't know what I would do if I didn't have my husband.

Thanks so much to all of you!

Dec 29, 2013
no control
by: YG

Your right Scarlet, we have no control over this very sad situation, I would do anything to get my D and GC back and this is not of my making (same with you), but I know there is nothing I can do, so very sad! I have no option but to silently wait and hope. Only when they are no longer together have I a chance of my D and GC return.

Dec 29, 2013
Me too!
by: YG

Merry Christmas Scarlet
I read your post with much interest as I am in the same boat as you, (my posts below). We have a wedding (of sorts) coming up. My children's father, who lives in Indonesia, is coming over to wed his wife again,here the UK, as their marriage in Indonesia is not recognised here. So my Nice daughter(cut out too) is wondering what is going to happen regarding her sister (my D) and also there would be a possibility of my GC being bridesmaid and pageboy.
I enjoyed my Christmas with my ND and her in-laws on Christmas day, and with my friends, and New year will be with my friends too. But this situation has meant that I have not seen my prev. in-laws (children's fathers side) over the whole Christmas time, as I would normally do,even down to Christmas dinner together, as my prev. f.i.l sided with narcissistic s.i.l. I also haven't seen my Son for the same reason.
My D and s.i.l live a few mins drive away and my Son spent the whole Christmas hols(eve-Fri) at theirs, having Christmas dinner with s.i.l mother and never came to see me or phone or anything!

Dec 28, 2013
Christmas for us and a update
by: Scarlet Jones

We had Christmas over at my youngest daughters home with the relatives. The daughter I lost has stopped going to family get togethers. She also meets with her sister outside of the narcissist family. For some reason they keep his family from being around my youngest daughter and husband. I figure because he has told a big fat lie and doesn't want any chance of his family approaching my youngest daughter to find out what really happened. My youngest daughter is engaged to be married August of this year. I love the man she is to marry. My only chance for me and my husband to have a chance at being grandparents is through this union. This is a loving normal relationship with a wonderful man.

I just saw my grandchild on a Christmas ornament. My daughter went over to the tree and gave me the ornament and I looked at a very beautiful child. She is now 17 months old. Does not know us and nothing is changed. I spoke out and said "this is so sad". I have no bond with this child. I gave the ornament to my husband who looked at the picture and agreed she is beautiful but we have no connection or bond with her.

My brother-in-law was very upset and has a big heart. I could not get angry with him. He told me the situation was tearing him up and that I should do whatever it takes to resolve the situation. He also reminded me that this is my daughter. What is so sad is family somehow feels I am in control of the situation and I am not. The narcissist has convinced everyone that he doesn't care (which I do agree as he has no empathy) and that it is my daughter that keeps the breach going. This is not true. Her husband is hiding behind his wife and she is protecting him. What a liar he is.

Get this if you can believe it. The high end rich narcissist is offering to pay for my daughter's honeymoon. In return they asked if my grandchild that I have never seen could be the flower girl. Can you believe the gall? I would be seeing my grandchild for the first time and not allowed to approach her. This done in front of everyone at the wedding. I told my daughter that if she loses her honeymoon because my GC can't be the flower girl that it is not a gift but a bribe. I was assured that my GC is too young and won't be in the wedding. It will be hard enough to see the narcissist with my daughter at this wedding. Yes he plans to go probably so he can stand up and stroke his ego by announcing that they are giving them their honeymoon. I am not sure how I am going to cope with this situation.

The way everyone in my family acts is that I have control and I should do whatever it takes to resolve the issue.



Dec 19, 2013
OMG
by: YG

So sorry to hear your sad tale, and welcome to the club of sorrows. Christmas is the worst time of year for us all, this is my second one without my beloved D & GC :-(( My story is below, same as yours. Im now thinking I will never see them again and yes the pain and sorrow is continuous!

Dec 19, 2013
omg...
by: Anonymous

I can't believe this...I feel so enlightened hearing these stories...My daughter is not the same person, appears to want nothing to do with us, and we cannot get through to her so we can see our 2 (only 2 we have) grandchildren. This is the worst pain we will ever, ever endure in our life...
I am so hurt by our daughter, and despise our son-in-law...at this point I really just care about our grandchildren who we have not seen in
9 1/2 months. My heart breaks. My granddaughter
who is 4 3/4 and I were totally bonded. I am so afraid she has forgotten all about me. My grandson is 2 1/2 and he doesn't even know us.
I wear this pain all the time. My husband and I see a CSW and I take Celexia...but the loss of our gc and the pain is, and will always be there.

Nov 26, 2013
Empathy
by: Anonymous

Lack of empathy is one of the major traits of the narcissist.
It is very strange to see how detached this type of person is.

Nov 26, 2013
Empathy
by: Anonymous

Lack of empathy is one of the major traits of the narcissist.
It is very strange to see how detached this type of person is.

Nov 26, 2013
Is this normal, even for a narcissist?
by: Anonymous

Recently learned that my daughter in law's parents marriage has broken up. The third party who told me this said they were shocked at her complete lack of concern. There appears to be absolutely no empathy in her at all. Is this normal, even for a narcissist?

Nov 19, 2013
Thank you Scarlett
by: Nosmiles

Thank you Scarlett for your wise words. I realised some time ago that we are better off having no contact with our S and d.i.l. even though it is the most painful experience my hus. and I have ever encountered. No contact with them equates to no contact with our grand son

We have to protect our selves and the only way we can do that is to keep our distance. We are getting on with our lives as best we can; putting on a brave face. We're getting so good at the pretense that I sense our other son is confused at how well we are coping! if only he knew.

Please don't regret going to court YG. You were prepared to fight and do what ever it took to see your gc. You demonstrated the courage that I lacked. I just couldn't face sitting there and hearing the lies come out of the mouth of my own child who I'd loved with all of my heart. As much as I love my gs. that was a price I just couldn't pay.

Nov 17, 2013
Apologizing?
by: Scarlet Jones

YG if you had bent over and let them kick you in the rear nothing would have changed except that you would not have been true to yourself AND you would have gotten a hard kick,at the same time justifying their treatment of you AND been asked to go out and eat worms and still nothing would have changed. They would have gone "see we were right in treating her this way"!!!

I admire you for being courageous enough to go to court. I personally believe you were meant to go through that court process as a confirmation that your best effort would not change a thing. So always be true to yourself and do not give the narcissist power of you. Remember that they need a circle of people around them to pay homage to their superiority while at the expense of their self worth. You don't want that for yourself. I would be miserable in like circumstances.

The number one person that you can keep out of harms way is yourself. Take care of yourself and I believe God is too. He knows it won't work out and why go there to get treated worse? No I know that God does not want that for anyone who experiences a person like this.

All narcissist operate the same. That is why your situation is the way it is and all of our stories are nearly the same. Self protection is key and letting yourself enjoy life again.

My being happy is what I want them to see. Over time our grown children will see that they have lost much and I am praying for the desire to look clearly at the situation and question why it is ok for the narcissist to have her associate with her family but not her own.

Everything happens for a reason and you did nothing wrong. Nothing wrong YG.

Their are consequences playing out on their side. I know for one that there is a big elephant in the room every time they have company over at their home and her parents are not present. A big elephant is present at our GC's birthday parties with all the other grandparents being there and her own parents are not there.

My DH keeps reminding me do you really want her back given the way things are and keep being mistreated. The bottom line is NO......

Nov 17, 2013
God!
by: YG

Oh God Scarlet!
Your post has put a chill down my spine regarding reconiliation. But I know your right about our D needing to have the fog lifted from their brains and leaving the Narcissit will be the only way we'll get them and our GC back. Also about our D being brain washed into their way of thinking!
I wish every day now, that I hadn't gone to court and know now, that it was the worst thing I could have done, but at the time my brain was awash with grief, so not working properly.
I wish with all my heart that I had gone round and apologized with flowers and a card, even though I didn't do or say anything wrong (in my eyes) and I'm thinking that if I had done this I may now be seeing them all again.

Nov 16, 2013
Your figuring it out
by: Scarlet Jones

The one thing I believe both of you are figuring out is that it won't work in a reconciliation the way things are because the narcissist can't change unless by some miracle he or she can develope empathy. Not going to happen unless there is a vaccine to give as a cure.
My DH and I both don't regret the narcissist being out of our lives. I know all on this page relate to that,
I have come to realize that a relationship won't work with the relationship issues being the same.
We know that our daughter will have to have God pull the blinders off and she severs the relationship.
We are not expecting any change because our daughter has conformed to his way of thinking. It is mind control.
Let yourself grieve over the loss of the relationship.
I am learning to accept and be there for the ones that want me in their lives.

Nov 15, 2013
Answered prayer!
by: Nosmiles

I was given this link from a lovely lady from another forum I have been using. I haven't seen my gs for over a year; when he was only 8 months old. My S and his wife live literally a two minute walk down the road, and I haven't spoken to my S for almost 14 months.

I have been struck by the similarities between our nightmare and the nightmares of others that I have encountered on that forum. Then yesterday I started to read about narcissism in more detail and it is as if I am reading about my d.i.l. I found this really difficult bec. I even began to feel some sympathy for her as I am aware of the difficult childhood she had and the dysfunctional family that she came from.

My sympathy quickly receded the moment I began to recount the she has almost destroyed my wonderful family and the most amazing relationship I had with my once loving and kind S.

This situation has been going on for almost 2 years now, and for 2 years I have prayed endlessly for an end to our misery. I have been angry with God for seemingly doing nothing about it. As our place in our S's life weakened, her strength increased.

I was, only a couple of weeks ago, talking about this with a friend when it dawned on me that God was listening, loving and helping me. If it hadn't been for my faith this would have destroyed me. There have been days when I'd wished it would. Nights when I would tell God that if it was OK with him for me not to wake up in the morning, it was OK with me too.

God has been answering my prayers all along, just not in the way I wanted. I have had a lot of fear, I am a strong person, never afraid to stand up for what I believe in, believe to be right and for those that I love. But what she has done frightens me. It frightens me that someone can desire too, and succeed in causing so much pain and suffering to people who had welcomed her in to their home, their family and their hearts.

Every night I ask God to protect me. I have been asking for His protection the whole time. I believe He is protecting me; having no contact with my S means no contact with her. In this heartbreaking situation, this at least keeps her away from me.

I don't know what the future holds, I do believe that one day my gs will find us, his grandparents, and will be a part of our lives. I know this cannot happen for many years but this small hope helps to sustain me during my darkest days.

Nov 15, 2013
Thank you
by: YG

Thank you for your kind words anon xx
Its One year today since my s.i.l told me to "F***-OFF" One year since I held them in my arms and gave them a kiss, cuddle and told them I love them, how very sad I am today (and every day!)
Its true what is said on here about 'staying out of the game to win', I went into the game, so now no hope of ever seeing them again, unless my D spilts up with nasty s.i.l

Nov 14, 2013
Maybe God is answering your prayer
by: Anonymous

Sometimes we want God to answer our prayer our way. In order to make sense of this situation, I have put my trust in God in knowing what is best for all involved. I believe God is protecting me, my daughter and GC. Our daughters are grown and living their lives the way they choose. If that means a life without me then I hope she is happy. However, there are consequences she will suffer because of her decision. They have lost a lot as well.
So be happy YG and remember you are still your daughters mom and a grandma. Nobody can take that away from you.

Nov 13, 2013
Why does God not answer my prayer?
by: YG

Thank you anon and star Jones,
I read your post with much interest, and sadness.
I too pray for my D each and every night, with a bible in one hand and my little GD's tiny socks in the other, putting them together to pray. A friend once said to me, regarding my s.i.l " It's like he is speaking Spanish and you English, he will never understand you, or you he!"
I wish God would hear my prayer and reunite me with my beloved D+GC

Nov 13, 2013
2013 Update of my situation
by: Star Jones

It is now 2 years out from my estrangement from my daughter and we have never met my grandchild who I hear is beautiful. My husband and I saw our daughter
at a family wedding. She did not speak to me or her father. My daughter and sister-in-law were invited to my grandchild's birthday party and sat with the company employee's to witness presents being opened up but had no personal contact with my estranged daughter. My daughters relationships between each other very distant and have become so detached that they are like strangers and hardly talk on the phone. My sister-in-law made an attempt at the wedding after we had left to reason with my estranged daughter and this was met with tears and that relationship is now estranged. We do not expect to see my daughter anymore.
None of this is new when you have someone with this type of personality disorder in your life.
The good news is I have found peace with the situation. I say this to give hope to others who have lost parts of their family through this type of individual. I have come to grieve over the loss of the daughter I raised. As for the person my daughter has become through contact with this individual,I will say I don't know who she is. Time moves on and you will find over time that the sun comes out again and you will feel sad at the loss but happiness will come back to your life in time. There is a no win situation trying to cope with a person such as my daughter married.
The good news is the whole family is seeing this individual for what he is and my relationships with my family and youngest daughter is stronger than ever. My daughter's husband did not attend because he can't look me or my family in the face. He is a coward underneath is God complex.
I pray for my estranged daughter and grandchild every day. My prayer is that her husband does not mistreat her or turn on her in any way. And finally she knows through a letter from us that she has not lost us and is welcomed back into our life if she ever chooses to do so. That would be a wonderful prayer answered indeed. Happiness is back and I cherish those in my life that I love.

Nov 12, 2013
To YG and son-in-law's perspective
by: Anonymous

YG I am so sorry your situation did not improve going to court. I want to compliment you on being so courageous and no one can never say you tried with your whole heart to resolve a bad situation even through the courts. We both know it should never come to that. In normal relationships you sit down with the people and work out a reconciliation. When you have a narcissist in your life there will be no reconciliation. Keep in mind I don't refer to them as son-in-law as they have a personality disorder. Keep remembering that you are not alone in this and I for one will never minimize your pain and most importantly will say that I believe you and all the cruel things you experienced from the narcissist in your life. My heart goes out to you.

My comments to a son-in-law from your side or perspective is this. You sound like you are defending the narcissist by trying to make him normal. Narcissist have severe personality disorders. They are not normal individuals. Does all these comments sound one sided? Yes they usually are as the narcissist loves inflicting pain on their victims. This page is for people that have suffered at the hands of these individuals and need help through the compassion of others that have experienced the same thing. We do not need to hear the comments from people that can't relate because they don't have any personal experience dealing with narcissist.

Nov 12, 2013
1 year this month :-((
by: YG

Hello all
I posted on here in April, it's now 1yr this week since I saw my beloved D+GC, my heart and soul are broken to pieces. I did and said nothing wrong to be 'cut out of their lives'.
I went to court 3 times; first time they didn't show, second they opposed, third the petition to apply to court was refused,the judge said he could see animosity on both sides. I now know it was a big mistake to go to court, worst thing you could do with Narcissist,his whole statement was a lie, drawn up by his mum, he lied in the court and committed fraud and perjury. They all waited for me outside the court, his mother said "I wrote the statements and they believed the bloody lot" my s.i.l said "and they (GC) wont even be at your funeral" My other D (sister) is also cut out along with aunties and best friends, so my D only has his family and friends in her life. My s.i.l is my GD step-dad, so she has had all her real blood relatives cut out and is calling his cruel mother nannie, when in fact she is no blood relative at all!
I actuall come on here to say 'Thank you" to the anon s.i.l who posted on here, it was good of you to do so, and you sound like a very nice fella,and an undertanding one too. If you were my s.i.l I think we would get on just fine

Nov 12, 2013
To previous poster
by: Anonymous

Actually, there are bad apples and not everyone has a good side when it comes to these things. If you look at the bible, there are many examples that God has given us of situations where one was good and the other bad, like Cain and Abel.

Nov 12, 2013
To previous poster
by: Anonymous

Actually, there are bad apples and not everyone has a good side when it comes to these things. If you look at the bible, there are many examples that God has given us of situations where one was good and the other bad, like Cain and Abel.

Nov 11, 2013
From son in law
by: Anonymous

This is a view from a son-in-law. Most of these comments seem to be one-sided. I think it is important to understand the view of the son-in-law too.Maybe that will give you an idea of what it is to be like on the other side. Maybe, your husband was also like us and you were like your daughter when it came to interacting with your parents or in-laws.

From a son-in-law's perspective, he wants to be the numero uno in his wife's eyes. Anything less, he will not feel like he deserves that.Having wife's parents in-house means that they are getting her attention and besides god knows what they might be discussing with her (his thinking). It is a known fact (most of the times) that his wife does not get along with his parents as well. So he thinks they might be talking about them. Remember, he is not a bad person at all because your daughter chose to marry him. Call these his insecurities but don't forget that he is a human after all. These need not be present in every son-in-law but they might be, although in varying degrees.

I have a father-in-law who likes to be the center of attention. He had his wife dancing around him all his life. My MIL loves me (so far). So if I get her attention or my wife's attention, he will do things to break that. For ex. he will point out the bad sides of what I am speaking on, or he will try to push his decisions in our family matters, etc.

In summary, there are bad apples on both sides. Also remember these are not completely bad apples though. Try to find good sides in both of these types to have a harmonious life.Otherwise it will put a lot of stress, like someone here who tries not be alone with her son-in-law during those 10 days when he is at her house.I can only imagine how difficult it could be.


Apr 18, 2013
Thanks for sharing what happened
by: Scarlett Jones

Yes it is a major victory that you are on speaking terms with your daughter. It amazes me that they were targeting your parenting skills. It seems narcissitic individuals must go to school to learn these tactics because they are so similar.

Turning back time I wish I had asked my daughter why is it ok with you that your husband can talk down your own mother?
She is giving her silent approval when she says nothing. If she have any issues with you she should come to you. That is the only way to work out problems with her and stop ghe brainwashing is keeping communication open. A narcissitic individual closes communication down to start strife.

I feel your daughter is trying to hang on to your relationship but is in a bad place not wanting to betray him. At least I hope so.

There should be a debriefing with a therapist to undo the brainwashing if they ever break free.

As for having any bonding with your grandkids, I understand what you mean. I watched him totally control his son from his first marriage and felt sad for his mom. She would complain go him on the phone about not seeing her grandson and he told my daughter that his mom is trying to put him on a guilt trip. My youngest daughter complains that she gets pictures but has no relationship with our grandchild. There are no surprises there.

I am praying for you. There is comfort in knowing you are not alone and that there is nothing you have done and we all can support each other.

Apr 16, 2013
Update
by: Anonymous

I posted about our daughter's family visiting and staying with us recently. They left last week. We are still recovering from the ten days they were here. What a nightmare that was. We are still on speaking terms with our daughter, so I guess I should count that as a victory. Somehow, it doesn't feel like one, but I know it could have been worse.
The reason they went after my son while he was staying ("housesitting") at our friends' home to get away from our son-in-law was simply to undermine us as parents. They got a hold of him later, and my daughter told him that the lifestyle of order and structure she had to live under when she was in high school had stiffled her creativity, blah, blah... Why? Because we don't have a home where it's everyone for themselves, no meals together as a family, no bedtimes - children of all ages staying up till two or three in the morning, etc. A home where meals were prepared and people go to bed at 10:00-11:00 is stiffling these days. Sure, that must be why she graduated from college Cum Laude and he didn't manage to graduate? Also why one of his brothers is a high school dropout and none of the others could make it into college. They are all video game, movie and media experts though.
Well, thankfully, my son saw right through this and told me about it. They were going to have a "talk" with him about college and career choices to encourage him not to go into engineering but to chose some humanities major like them. I guess engineering also stiffles people's creativity. I guess it makes sense that he doesn't want his brother-in-law to outshine him and his family. I had warned my son to not tell them what he made on the SAT, and sure enough, it was one of the things they were questioning him about. He didn't tell. He is dual-enrolling at the community college this summer and taking calculus with the score he made on the math section alone. I must be such a stiffling mother!

I feel for all the other grandparents who are going through this horrible experience. I didn't get to bond with out grandaughter properly either. We have had the opportunity to meet her and hold her, but the strain and minimal time spent together have prevented any real bonding. In a way it does make things easier, though we mourn the relationship we know we could have had and are very sad for her.

I pray for every one here, that someday we will have healing in these relationships and that God will give us wisdom to know how to handle each and every one of these situations.

Apr 14, 2013
I feel for you!
by: Anonymous


I wish I could say it gets better. You will have good days and not so good days. I think men handle it better than women. My husband says he just tries not to think about her. That doesn't seem to work for me.

I just found out that my daughter is on facebook. She has me blocked. Wonders never cease.

My youngest daughter sees her sister a little. She said the narcissist is acting weird. She was trying to put a name to his behavior. She said I think the word is politically correct. I said yeah well watch your back. He will be getting rid of you too but just hasn't found the way yet.

I know it is harder for grandparents that actually had a relationship with their grandkids and then lost them. That is so hard. I saw a picture of our grandchild and it is strange. She could be anyone's grandchild. We never saw her as a baby and she has just turned one year old. We are not bonded to the baby but that is sad in and of itself.

My husband and myself just pray that the blinders will come off and our daughter no longer be able to pretend his behavior is ok. I do feel eventually he will target our daughter. I think this type of individual is just plain evil. I miss my daughter who has changed completely. I am mourning for the daughter is once knew and lost. That helps put this in perspective. Oh, our daughter has not sent a friend request to both sides of her family. She has completely isolated herself. She has a few friends on facebook but only out of her husbands company. I found this info out through a friend being able to access her page for me.

Good for you that you are putting your foot down about your grandkids. It is sad that you have to resort to the courts and I pray that you will prevail.

Many hugs to you. I hope your daughter can see the light one day.


Apr 14, 2013
Me too!
by: YG

I'm in the same boat, was really close to my lovely daughter and my wonderful grandchildren. I now haven't seen them all for 5months! I'm going to court in 2 weeks for visitation rights for my GC.
The older one is not even his, I had such a close bond with her, I was at her birth, my daughter and the baby lived with me until she got with the narcissist.
My daughters personality has changed too, I just cant believe she is allowing this to happen and I now think I've lost her. I am so sad every day and miss them so much. I pray every day that they will split-up, as I think this will be the only way I will see my daughter again.

Apr 02, 2013
Throwing rocks!
by: Anonymous

I am so glad that you did talk to your daughter before your son-in-law can severe the relationship.
I wish I could have done as much but hind sight is 20/20 and I don't think I would have had nothing but resistance.

I agree that your daughter probably reported everything said to her to her husband. Our daughter did that and the son-in-law said they don't keep anything from each other. I think it is that way the narcissist can control everything.

I am also interested in why they wanted to get to your son while alone? You really came through for him and protected him. How heartbreaking this situation is for you that you have to protect your kids from this man. What amazes me is that they were throwing rocks at your windows without a care that they could cause damage.

I am so glad your son did not open the door.


Apr 02, 2013
Follow-up & Thanks
by: Anonymous

I echo the previous poster - I am so thankful for the support offered on this site.

What happened yesterday with my daughter/SIL staying here on vacation is more of the same old story, except that we did sit down and talk to our daughter and explained that we are under a lot of strain because of her husband's behavior. She is in denial, but we thought it was important that we have this conversation with her because we are looking at the future and what seems inevitable. He will turn on her, eventually. When the time comes for her to open her eyes, we want her to remember that we weren't fooled and she is not alone. That was the goal. Of course, we encountered all kinds of resistance and she tried to fight back. There was some of the same disrespect at that time. We expected it, but it still hurts, especially coming from her. Still, I think it was necessary. We didn't bring up but a couple of incidents, because the goal was to make her aware that we know what is going on. We told her that we see many things and we are very concerned for her, and that she should expect that since I am a protective mother, I will not be letting her younger siblings out of my sight when they are around. I don't know if that registered with her, and I don't know what the fallout will be from that one, whether he will back off and move on to other potential supply sources? Or, whether he will redouble his efforts. We expect that most of what was said has been repeated, and we haven't seen him since she had time alone with him, so we will see...

One of the incidents we discussed was what happened this weekend at the home of our friends where our son was "housesitting" (hiding). On Friday night, she and her husband decided to there to see him. I said nothing, as I knew it would make no difference, but I called my son and warned him. He didn't open the door. They proceeded to walk around the house looking into every window. Thankfully, there was an upstairs... They also threw stones at the windows upstairs... I told my friend about this, and she will be checking the windows for cracks. I don't think they suspect that each of those windows is worth $2500 as they are hurricane proof. Well, as if all that wasn't enough, they accosted our son on Sunday demanding an explanation as to why he didn't open the door or answer the phone. It was so intense, that I had to step in and say that he wasn't there to receive visitors and had been told not to open the door for anyone. Knowing that he would be coming home in a couple of days, one has to wonder why the urgency and why the anger at not being allowed in that house. My friend had explicitly asked that my SIL not be allowed in her house.

Apr 01, 2013
Jade this forum does help
by: Anonymous

It never ceases to amaze me how similar our stories are. Narccistic individuals are.

I cannot say this forum can give the solution to this type of person. Hopefully it can. What it will do is show that you are not alone and you are not crazy. You will get comfort from othet people that have gone through the same thing. We all can share and be there for each other. I cannot say enough how this forum helps me.




Apr 01, 2013
Evil is the perfect discription
by: Anonymous

I am so sorry for you. Do you mind sharing exactly what he did? You seemed to have had a good handle on it at the time but you had just started into this terrible visit with someone who is EVIL and knows how to cause division. The fact that he schemed and plotted what he was going to do was spot on I am sorry to say.

I am hoping you have not lost contact with your daughter and grandchild. It is impossible to be in the same room with evil. What was strange about our daughter was the change. She seemed to approve his hateful behavior. It may be true that you become like the people you hang around.

The only upside to this is that if you never see them again you won't have to deal with him.

I say a prayer every night that God will germinate a seed of doubt in my daughter's mind because I think this is the only way you and your husband will see her again. When SHE can no longer accept the way he treats people and that she will miss her family in time and wonder why it is o'k with him for her to not have any contact. As my DH and I believe our daughter will have to divorce him and we figure it will take a decade.

How can a husband do this to his own wife and be a nice person? Nice they are not. Downright mean and sadistic.

It does not surprise me that he is a church goer. Some of the most evil and sadistic people use the church as a cover so they can appear good to society and the people in their circle.

Have you ever read the book "People of the Lie"? That is a book of stories of the most evil people and their impact on the families they are a part of. I believe the narcissist is one of these people. There is also a book I bought about narcissism and the first thing it says is how sorry they are that you have a person like this in your life for you would not be purchasing the book unless you were. Another good book is "How to deal with toxic people". This book is a good book and shows how the people involved dealt with the person that was making their life miserable.

I know you are heartbroken. I wanted to share that it does get better in time. Always remember that you are not alone and there is nothing you could do. This is the time to say the Serenity Prayer. I say it every day when I digress and go back in the past to see if I could have done anything different.

I hope your husband did not let this monster get away with too much cruelty.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Apr 01, 2013
Follow-up
by: Anonymous

This thread seems like the same story coming from different families at different stages.

I posted earlier about my daughter's family visiting and spending 10 days at our house. They are here. It's a disaster.

I have little hope that we will not end up where the original poster is - a broken relationship with no contact, being cut off from our granduaghter in the process.

I am heartbroken.

I wish I could say that we have found a way to keep this creep from poisoning our daughter against us. Nope! We are dealing with an evil, evil person, and a wolf in sheep's clothing to boot. The guy even works at a well-known national ministry writing "Christian" worldview columns, book reviews... I could scream just thinking that people donate their hard-earned money to these people. So,it is hard to convince our daughter that what we have to say is of any value if it disagrees with his wise counsel - he gets paid for his "valuable opinions".

Apr 01, 2013
A controlling Son-In-Law...
by: Jade ThompsonAnonymous

I desperately feel for you....it was like reading about my own life.
I also have a "control freak" Son-in Law. I figured he had Narcissistic traits just over 6 years ago. I did not know what a narcissist was until I did some research on the subject.
He has been with our daughter for almost 7 years.
He has bought nothing but trouble and misery to our family.
He refuses to participate in happy family events. He stops our daughter from seeing us (when it suits him).
We have tried in vain to get along with him. He refuses to have anything to do with her family.
We now have a grandchild....and there are early signs that he will destroy our interaction with her....no reason...just because he can.
I have been at my wits end for a number of years now. I have also suffered terrible depression because of the monster.
It is difficult to know where to turn.
I found this forum by mistake.....I am hoping as well to find answers to this never ending emotional and mental abuse that this creep keeps spewing out our way. He is an evil and insidious individual.

Mar 21, 2013
PS
by: Anonymous

I managed to get our 8 year old out of the way last night, as it was one of my goals. But he substituted her with our 11 year old as quick as lightning... It's mind boggling how good these people are at mainting their "supply." I will focus on keeping both girls occupied! It's very hard to keep all your bases covered. So, I expect he will win some battles, but hopefully not the war!

I am praying that you have a chance in the future to get your daughter's heart back. One of these days her eyes may be opened, and she will realize what has happened. Hopefully sooner than later!

Thanks for the response, and I'll be back. :)

Mar 21, 2013
Good for you!
by: Anonymous

My DH and myself laughed our heads off reading your post. Mentally ill he is. That really puts it all in perspective doesn't it?

I know that cult of one has been plotting and planning how rude and disrespectful he was going to be to your family
Boy has he been thrown into a tailspin! I am loving it!
Still be careful and hopefully your daughter will start to notice and question how rude to her family he is being.

I wish I could go back in time and change the mistakes I made but seeing how disarming him is working for you just may keep him from stealing your relationship with your daughter.

My nickname for my son-in-law is "Alan Almighty"!
Keep up the good work and keep avoiding the land mines your walking through.

What about your 8 year old? You didn't mention her? Keep updating. Don't let your guard down.

Mar 21, 2013
Good for you!
by: Anonymous

My DH and myself laughed our heads off reading your post. Mentally ill he is. That really puts it all in perspective doesn't it?

I know that cult of one has been plotting and planning how rude and disrespectful he was going to be to your family
Boy has he been thrown into a tailspin! I am loving it!
Still be careful and hopefully your daughter will start to notice and question how rude to her family he is being.

I wish I could go back in time and change the mistakes I made but seeing how disarming him is working for you just may keep him from stealing your relationship with your daughter.

My nickname for my son-in-law is "Alan Almighty"!
Keep up the good work and keep avoiding the land mines your walking through.

What about your 8 year old? You didn't mention her? Keep updating. Don't let your guard down.

Mar 21, 2013
Update on daughter's visit
by: Anonymous

I am so thankful for this website! As I've posted here before, my daughter and SIL are in town. They were here last night. I am sure it went better for me because the way I am perceiving the situation has changed so much. I am now 100% convinced that he is mentally ill and a narcissist. It has made a difference. I no longer try to talk to him like he is normal.

He tried all his usual tactics last night. It's amazing! He made fun of my daughter and the food choices she has made for their baby. Daughter #2 made the mistake of agreeing with him about his dislike of that food, and she became his best friend (supply), she got his admiration, if only for that moment. She thought this was great, as he has been very nasty to her in the past. He is so divisive... When he wasn't the center of attention, leading the conversation with his usual lecture on a given subject, he totally ignored every single one of us, being the intellectual that he is (NOT), he had his nose in a book, which he made sure to attempt to give us a lecture on before the night was out. As soon as that started, I left the room.

He tried to interrupt several conversations I was having with my daughter to draw the subject to himself. It was so obvious! The guy can't stand to not be the center of attention for one minute. I kept talking like I didn't hear him, like this is the crazy uncle every family has...

He tried to offend me by, out of the blue, saying that our dog was "really dirty." To which I replied, with a smile on my face, that he is right, since the dog does get to go outside every day and doesn't wear shoes or anything else. This caught him by surprise, and he was somewhat disarmed, as he expected this would open up an argument. The best part of this was that my son (15) took notice of my new approach and managed to pull off something similar a few minutes later, when he got his dosage of a put down.
What a jerk!

One of our friends in the know is going on a trip and has left us her house keys as an escape to a place of refuge. She has offered to let our son go there to get away, spend the night... with the excuse that he is house sitting, at any point during this visit. What a relief that is!

I suspect his anger towards me must be through the roof at this point. I anticipate he will be attacking me with a vengeance very soon. I've said before here, that I think it's important to have allies (friends) who are on board with what is happening. Here's the biggest reason why, they are PRAYING for us. We need those prayers!
All this in one night.

So, that is my update for now...

Mar 17, 2013
Thank you!
by: M

Thank you for the suggestions, this is so helpful! I will spend some time this afternoon making plans.

I saw my son (15) writing on his computer on a document he calls "Operation Shield." I thought it was funny that he picked that name. He said it is his list of things to do while "the jerk" is staying with us, to "try to avoid being attacked." It's funny he came up with that name for his list, but it is also tragic at the same time.

I will let you know how it goes...

Mar 17, 2013
This is what I would do.....
by: Anonymous

I cannot imagine having to cope with my son-in-law for 10 days. I am interested in how that turns out for you later.
Yes, I believe your youngest daughter is his supply but I would see to it that not much contact with her happens. Keep her busy visiting friends but don't let her hang around much with him without you present. How would you handle a your child being around someone that is a pedophile or has a criminal record? You would not let her be alone would you? Keep her busy and passing through to say hello. Invite a friend of your daughter over so "he" won't be her focus. He may suspect something but have no proof that you are limiting his time with her. Treat him like the Aids virus he is. Limit contact.

Looking back at something that happened after dinner at their home, we were having coffee. My daughter says to her husband sitting across from me, "you know the sausage/cheese balls you love so much?" He looks at her and says yes. She says "that is mom's recipe". He says "Oh really?" He then stands up and leans across the table and gets in my face and gives me a hateful nasty look and then turns his face away like I am dismissed. He loves to dismiss people. I looked at my daughter shocked to see her reaction and she was staring down at the table with a smile on her face. She saw it alright! The moment passed and I said nothing. One thing for sure is my husband was not present. I believe this type of person is a coward underneath it all. He didn't target my husband just me.

Thinking that his goal is to end relationships, I would watch my back for those ten days. Don't get caught alone with him either. Make sure your husband is with you at all times. Steer clear of any conversation that could get him started. If he acts like a jerk, pretend it doesn't bother you or you didn't get it? LOL!!! That would get him for sure.:) I wish I had done that now instead of confronting him which is what he wanted all along.

After he has left go take a hot shower and have a glass of wine if you like and say a prayer you survived being around him.

Also,love on your daughter a lot while she is there. Thinking about the daughter I have lost touch with I wish I had poured on the love in spite of her behavior and his. I have to think they put up with a lot of mental abuse and don't realize it.

I do feel that my son-in-law's mother is narcisstic. Why do I think this? At my daughter's wedding the mother of the groom came over to me and said; " I did good didn't I?" I said what??? confusion on my face. She gives a big grin and nods her head toward her son. If that isn't narcissism I don't know what is.

Hope this helps!

Mar 17, 2013
Coping
by: M

I understand the situation completely. Ours is very similar. My SIL's side of the family doesn't talk to us. Their behavior is very strange to me, but having a son like that, I guess it's not surprising. I think his mother may also be one. Our daughter sides with him always, she doesn't want to betray him. Like you said, this is understandable, but very scary and hurtful. My SIL attacked me on Facebook, for hundreds of people to see, numerous times. He has also comes after my husband, oldest son, and younger daughter. The only one who doesn't seem to be on his hit list YET is our youngest daughter, who is 8. She adores him, so she is supply at this point. This is one of my questions. What does one do with a younger child who has such a Brother-in-law? I really need some more ideas on how to cope. At this point, I am trying to fill my calendar, so as to be out of the house to make sure we all get a break every day. I am going to be working to keep everyone busy... including myself.

Our SIL has tried (and succeeded) to discredit us with all the relatives he has access to. This has caused division in our family, and we feel we can't trust those people who've fallen for his charm and deception. Our holidays with family have become a real nightmare! That is why having a couple of friends that we can trust and have seen through the big farce is great. They don't fully understand like people here who have gone through this, but they are so important to us, as we have younger children. We can call and ask them to keep our other children at their house during times when we expect a blow up with SIL.
My daughter and he are flying in tomorrow. They will be staying with his family for the first 10 days, then with us for another 10. Since he "is indispensable" at his work, he'll be telecommuting while they are here. We are letting our daughter borrow our car with the rule that his is not to drive it, as he doesn't know how to drive a stick shift- that's the excuse. We want her to be able to get away... This is their first visit since they moved away, so we'll see how that goes.

Mar 17, 2013
Time is the healer
by: Anonymous

I don't think isolation is the right word. This forum eliminates that I believe. Who better to talk to than someone experiencing the same thing? I feel lack of communication with the people that got sucked into this situation by this man is causing me a lot of frustration. They just don't want to be caught in the middle. I can't say I blame them. I think I would feel so much better if I had my chance to explain and defend myself to them and give the actual facts of what he did to me would resolve some of the confusion from my family members. They really don't know what to say even if I did sit them down and explain the facts. I feel explaining what this man did to me would help me get over this situation.

My oldest daughter that is married to this man thinks I am lying. To question her husband would be considered a betrayal so I get that. However there was never a issue with my daughter just him. That is very hurtful in itself. She joined ranks with him and attacked me for defending myself against him. He took a closed communication between me and him by email and copied it to his people at work, my other daughter and his personal family. He was trying to ruin my reputation and character with people that I knew through this marriage and my youngest daughter. I have lost contact with his side of the family but that is not surprising. I wonder how they feel about the elephant in the room. If I were his parents I would know that if they crossed him in any way he would do the same to them. The company he owns with his employees and his immediate family are his narcissitic supply.

I am waiting for time healing the wounds.

Mar 16, 2013
Isolation is not healthy
by: Anonymous

Although I do understand that most people do not get this, some do. It is worth looking for those poeple who do. Their support is invaluable. I know we can't talk to most, but having two or three friends we can trust and confide in has made all the difference. So, I encourage you all to try to find those people.

Mar 16, 2013
I feel for you!
by: Anonymous

I love your "Cult of One" title to describe such a despicable person. I feel for you & understand how you feel.

There is still no word from our daughter. I am fearing we have lost her for good. I am grieving for the daughter I used to know. I don't know my daughter who has changed like yours did. What is the power a man like this can have over our daughter to change her personality? Maybe that is how they survive.

Our Grandchild will be a year old at the end of this month. I still can't believe this has happened. It is a nightmare I keep hoping I will wake up from.

I don't know what I would do if I had my son-in-law
stalking me. You are not alone and I thought I was going crazy. I can't talk about this to anyone. They just don't get it!

Mar 14, 2013
Daughter in a Cult of One
by: Anonymous

Our now estranged daughter has a serious incurable illness that she got six years ago. Due to this our brilliant young 20something career girl became someone who seems educable retarded.
I am afraid as I write this because her Cult of One boyfriend is vicious,violent and always gets his payback if anyone dares utter a word to anger him. He has stalked me at our home and online. Back to the story summary.
He is a malignant narcissist to the letter! The doctor I have had to go to in order to deal with the terror of this maniac told me today that the reason malignant man attacks me and not my husband is because he knows that I am like a terrier with a rat! When i asked for an explanation the doctor said: daughter's boyfriend can sense that I consider him a rat and that I am going to hold on until I can yank the rat out of our lives.
Wish I could really feel that way and do something like that but his constant barrage of attacks and stalking have reduced me to living in fear.
Our daughter is exactly the way others have described, now a stranger to us and happily abusive to us using behavior and language that are uncharacteristic. She only speaks to us when he close at hand to tell her what to say.
Now he is trying to get my parents and siblings involved. The two of them told us to go to hell ( putting it nicely compared to what was said). We have been out of touch for over a month BUT he neede his fix of anger and rage so now they are calling and emailing outrageous versions of reality.
This malignant narcissist is paranoid and sociopathic. Did time in jail/drug dealer but he has insisted that he is the nicest most loving person we will ever meet. Anytime he shouts obscenities in his violent rages it is due to some unusual circumstance. You see he has never done anything wrong and has been out here on earth to serve others.
I have to stop this is such a nightmare. Many,many thanks to all who took the time to share their stories. I truly felt alone and every time Idid an Internet search all I could find was narcissistic mother-in-laws. Give me a break! What about the wackos our daughters bring into our lives who gleefully destroy families forever. I am such a loss as to how to go on. There is absolutely nothing we can do. Thanks very much in advance to any who respond.
Trying To Survive

Mar 11, 2013
Heartbreaking Indeed
by: Anonymous

Wow, I am reading the post and comments, and this sounds so much like our situation! Our lovely daughter met this guy at a different church and a year later they were engaged and soon to be married. He is a charmer... and a deceiver. The rudeness and nastiness didn't begin until after the wedding, after he had her. That's when the super -controlling behavior took off. He has tried to drive our other three children away from us, but I saw what a smooth operator he was, so I nipped it in the bud from the start. It was bad enough that he had our daughter. Of course, this only made things worse for my husband and I. He now despises our son and me. I had a confrontation with him about two months ago, two weeks before they were to move to another state. He left town without a word to our family. Our daughter is still allowed to talk to us, and we've seen the baby - six months old. He decided to move as soon as he found out our daughter was pregnant. It's so sad. A narcissist son-in-law is a terrible thing to have. Our daughter always sides with him and has adopted his attitudes, beliefs, and rude manners. It is so shocking to see how these men dominate and control the women in their lives. I hardly know our daughter any more... We used to be so close. She would tell everyone that I was her best friend... Now, I don't know who she is when I talk to her on the phone. They are coming here for a 10 day vacation and will be staying with us. It's going to take a miracle for us to be able to handle this. I have been reading up on how to deal with a narcissistic person. One of the good pieces of advice I found was to not talk about anything controversial, keep the conversation superficial. It's very difficult, because they come after you and are verbally abusive.

I hope things improve for you somehow!

Mar 04, 2013
Father writes letter to daughter...
by: Anonymous

I guess it doesn't matter if they have money or not.
I can relate to you because I finally spoke up and confronted him we lost our daughter and grandchild.
My DH a few weeks ago sent a father/daughter letter to their home. We should have sent it registered mail return receipt requested. She has never mentioned having received it to her sister. In this letter it was also telling her that we loved her and have not abandoned her. There is minimal contact with her sister. If we hear anything it is through her. I am glad he is out of our life. He is sadistic, selfish, cruel. He got what he wanted and I feel I fell into his hands but it was good speaking up for myself. We love our daughter but she has changed too. I am disappointed that she gave her silent approval to his mean behavior toward me. I am convinced nothing is going to change. I went on utube and saw a cartoon about narcissitic behavior and if you cross them they will not bend or work things out.
I agree with you that he has not figured out to completely end the relationship. I told our other daughter who just got engaged to watch her back. He has not figured out to get rid of you either but he will in time. I told her if he starts giving you nasty looks call him down on it in front of her sister. I wish I had. I let the ball drop too long until I could not take it anymore. When my own daughter jumped on board with this behavior I just could not take it anymore. I don't know if my daughter and her narcissitic husband will come to her sister's wedding but won't be surprised if they don't.
They did not show up to any get family get together's this past year. In the letter my husband wrote to our daughter he said we are not going to put up with hostaging. He feels that is what they are doing not letting us see our daughter. All I can say is watch your bad. They are cunning and strategic and it's scary.

Mar 04, 2013
This Is ME!!
by: Anonymous

This could've been my story except my son in law isn't wealthy but his family is. Our daughter a "sweetheart" has convinced our son to not speak to me as well. They insult their dad (my husband) alot but he manages to ignore it whereas I have a tendency to speak out and I'm very glad that I have. I did play into my son in law's hands as well but I don't regret it. It's frustrating at times but I'm still glad I spoke up.

We do get to see our only grandson occasionally and I'm glad for that but I expect my son in law to do something about that eventually.

He tried to get on at our local police department but failed the drug test twice and because I have connections to the pd, though not an officer, he blames me.

His 36 year old half brother lives at home with his parents. He is a convicted felon, having served time for child abuse. He's a drug dealer/trafficker and has a very lengthy rap sheet going back 12 years. His mother lied to my daughter about this and when I questioned my daughter about it her excuse is that she trusts her in laws to protect her son against this
monster.

It's a crazy situation and frustrating as well but there's nothing I can do.

This man has her convinced she has no one to turn to so I have made sure she understands if she ever needs help I'm a phone call away. This way he hasn't completely won.

Feb 02, 2013
Update on narcissistic son-in-law
by: Anonymous

It sounds like you at least have a relationship with your daughter and Grandkids. I think he has not figured out how to get rid of you yet. So I am happy for you that you have not lost all contact. You are wise in thinking he could pick up and take off. Watch your back.

Update- We have lost all contact except for a Christmas postcard with a family picture of them and the baby. It was addressed only to my husband. Everyone else got a generic letter about their life for the last year. My husband got nothing.
This is what happens when you confront a narccisstic personality. In getting the card, the message is "Look at the Grandchild you will never know.

Being treated as invisible still was so upsetting to me that my husband sat down & wrote a letter to our daughter. We have heard nothing.

In this letter my husband tells my daughter that we did not raise her to act that way and there is no motivation for me to lie about it. He writes we will not be a party to hostaging.
He told her we love her and have not abandoned her.

The rest of the family now sees what he is like. Still we don't know when we will ever see our daughter again.

Feb 01, 2013
Narcissitic son-in-law
by:

My heart goes out to you. Twenty years ago, our lovely daughter began seeing "Nabal". He showed up at our church one Sunday and he immediately began to weave his magic on our daughter, who was the church pianist. Nabal was full of himself, cunning, charming, manipulative, etc.
Over time, he even succeeded in driving a wedge between our daughter and the elder Pastor. She eventually left the church and married this person. They moved just far enough away that he could monitor and control any contact with family or friends. This continued for over ten years.
There were many nights, I cried myself to sleep. 13 years after they were married my daughter finally became pregnant, but she lost the baby during the pregnancy. She was heartbroken. Then several years ago, Nabal accidently hit a man walking along the highway with a company vehicle. Nabal left the scene of the accident. The man died and later Nabal lost his job. Now he has high blood pressure, arthritis, stomach problems, hernias, sinus infections, obesity, etc. Nabal is still arrogant and manipulative. And of course our daughter is still married to him and she defends him at every turn.
God's goodness shines in spite of this sad, sorry, story. Our daughter was finally blessed with two beautiful children. I retired and I have kept the children so she could work to support his habits. This suits Nabal since my services are free and he has more money for whatever.
I know that at any time, he may run with the children as he did with our daughter. But, everyday with the children is a gift from God.




Nov 18, 2012
Update on Narccissitic son-in-law
by: Anonymous

This is the follow up to my first post. We have not seen our daughter and we don't know what the baby looks like. My narccissitic son-in-law did target only me. When I stood up for myself, this is what he wanted and ending the relationship with me and now my husband. The baby was born last March and they took a private room and lied and told everyone they could not have visitors. Not even her sister was allowed up there. My son-in-law's 10 year old son from a previous marriage was brought to the hospital and was allowed to see the baby but NOONE on both sides of the family were allowed to the hospital. We just found out that they will not be attending Thanksgiving so that will mean that no one will see the baby. Probably this will be the last contact from my daughter and husband. They live a isolated life and don't have much to do with either side I hear from my daughter who has a minimum amount of contact with her. I guess my son-in-law's side of the family know by now that if they offend both of them in any way that they won't see the baby too. My daughter does not do facebook. She is controlled completely by him and is changed completely. I don't believe her father and me will ever see her again. I have moved on to acceptance now. Boy the anger was hard to deal with but things are better now. We focus on our daughter who is in our life. We may be relocating to another state and I never thought I would be so happy to go. Things do get better over time.

May 07, 2012
Narcissistic son-in-law - no baby or daughter as feared!
by: Anonymous

Thank you so much for your comment. It gave me chills! It also validated our experience so thank you again. Yes all rude comments and passive aggressive behavior were targeted at me only. As we feared we were not contacted when the baby was born. My husband was sent a short text with a picture of my daughter holding the baby in recovery room. It was clear my husband was to be allowed to be a Grandparent but not I. A email was sent expressing this intent. Hurt I responded. I said my husband and I are married and a package deal. He replies no deal. I feel your pain as you held your Grandchild. We have no pictures other than a text picture. They rented a private room at the hospital and lied and told family they could not accept visitors.
How creepy! Absolute control and isolation. How messed up!
I share your pain. I also felt I was going crazy. He copied our private correspondence and made it public with his friends and company. He is the owner. He is trying to attack my character and reputation. The favorite saying that stands out from both of them is " Nothing has been done to you...EVER!!!!!". What a lie.

May 07, 2012
Not alone
by: Anonymous

I can't believe that I am reading this. It's like reading an act verbatim from my life with our daughter and narcissistic son-in-law. Exactly! You wouldn't believe some of the comments from him...and he rarely targets my husband. Our daughter, who we used to be so very close to, has changed and taken on his warped realities. They had a baby and won't let anyone in the family see this precious little boy. My husband and I have been to counseling, read books, written amends letters to them, all to no avail. He is manipulative, self-absorbed and never accepts blame or accountability. It has been two years since we have seen our daughter and have only seen our grandson on the day of his birth. By the way, the parents of this young man (30) are just like him. They took our daughter and ran.

It's good to know that we are not alone. I thought we were going crazy. It's been a very difficult time.
G.G.

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